cruiting stations were set up in almost every corner drugstore throughout the country, to serve in manning the ships of our merchant fleet. The young men of America did the job so well that the slogan "they formed a bridge of ships across the Atlantic to carry the needed supplies to our fighting men at the front" was establishd.

The highest of praise was bestowed upon our ranks by General Pershing, and others, who all agreed that the country should reward this service by certain rights.

In World War II we know that when a merchant ship was sunk the pay of the crew of that ship ceased at once. The reason I state this fact is because I had men from my native city who were too old for the draft willingly and gladly volunteer their service to serve their country in the hour of its greatest peril. Unfortunately some of these men lost their lives in European war zones through enemy action-some leaving widows and children behind them. When these bereaved applied for aid from the Red Cross and various other veterans' organizations they were turned down flatly.

The widows applied to me as national financial officer of the Merchant Marine Veterans Association to help in this cause. This association helped in every asking-turning down none, until such time as they could make other arrangements.

I feel that only the passing of H. R. 476 can overcome this abominable situation. In closing, I would like to thank the chairman of the committee for his kindness in allowing me to incorporate this statement in the records.

Mr. BRADLEY of California. Captain, while you are on your feet, have you thought of anything more you would like to say to the committee?

Mr. NORTON. Well, on some of the questions asked yesterday and the day before of other witnesses.

Mr. BRADLEY of California. I will be glad to allow you a few minutes while you are on your feet.

Mr. NORTON. All right, sir.

Mr. LATHAM. Captain, I was interested in one statement you read from that paper to the effect that when the ship was sunk the pay stopped. What did he mean by that?

Mr. NORTON. I believe that is correct, sir.

Mr. LATHAM. All pay checks stopped?

Mr. NORTON. Oh, yes. The pay of the crew stops, to my understanding, when the ship is sunk.

Mr. LATHAM. It probably would for those who drowned, but I cannot understand the pay checks stopping for the others.

Mr. NORTON. I am not stating this as a fact, but I think that is true in war as well as in peace. In peace it is so.

Mr. BRADLEY of California. Was that intended to apply to World War I or World War II?

Mr. NORTON. Fortunately, I never had a ship sunk, sir, and from first hand knowledge I do not know.

Mr. LATHAM. No further questions.

Mr. BRADLEY of California. If you desire to make any further statement, you may, Captain Norton. Otherwise, thank you for your kind

ness.

Mr. NORTON. I can't at the moment think of anything more I could say to sway you gentlemen.

Mr. BRADLEY of California. Thank you, then. We will excuse you and thank you for your kindness in producing the statement.

Mr. NORTON. At any time that any of your witnesses are unable to answer a question I would appreciate the privilege of answering for them, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. BRADLEY of California. Thank you.

Mr. Albright? Is Mr. Albright present?
Mr. ALBRIGHT. Yes.

Mr. BRADLEY, of California. We are very glad to have you make your statement, Mr. Albright. Will you identify yourself for the record, first?

STATEMENT OF P. L. ALBRIGHT, LIEUTENANT (J. G.), MERCHANT

MARINE

Mr. ALBRIGHT. Yes, sir. My name is P. L. Albright. I am a graduate of Kings Point. I hold an ensign commission in the Navy, and a lieutenant (jg) commission, United States Maritime Service.

First, sir, I would like to make my position clear. I am up here to try to get the fact before you as best I possibly can, and I hope to have a lot of questions asked me. I would like, when I answer them, to be as truthful as possible.

Mr. BRADLEY of California. We naturally expect that.

Mr. ALBRIGHT. Yes, sir. And in case I may not be able to answer some of the questions, I want you to understand that, too. My position is that I and a lot of others like me are trying to put ourselves through school on our own. We had a lot of friends who were in the armed services who are going through under the GI bill of rights, and we personally think that it is an inequity to ourselves that we do not have this bill to put us through school while they do.

My position is that we deserve the educational rights for the same reasons that the average GI does.

If I understand it rightly, the main objections to this bill are really based on three grounds, the first of these being that the men of the merchant marine, it is claimed, received considerably more pay than was received by the men of the armed services. The second being that the men of the merchant marine could quit any time they pleased, and, third, which I believe is probably the most pertinent, is the fact that the merchant marine was considered a civilian outfit and not one of the services.

As to the first of these grounds-about the pay-I think that that should be looked into, but I do not think it is as important as would seem to be indicated by all that has been said about it. Because, although personally I have seen these figures, I am sure that there was a difference there. I know, myself, I did not get any money. While I was in training I got $60 a month, and out at sea I got $72 plus bonuses which very seldom came to over $120 a month. And much of that was spent back at Kings Point in getting uniforms.

The second of the contentions advanced is that the men in the merchant marine could quit at any time they pleased. Well, I believe, if this is a benefit, it is surely a very slim benefit because of the men who joined the merchant marine a good many of them could not join the services, and a good many of them joined because they could get out to sea in a hurry. That is one of the reasons why I joined, inci

dentally. You have just 3 months' training, or less, and you are out at sea. And if any man would quit who could be drafted he would have been drafted at once. It was just like being in the V-12 at first, or the Army Air Corps, as I understand it. If you quit then you would go back into the draft.

As to the third contention, in which I probably believe, and from what I have understood you, Mr. Bradley, and others have considered to be probably the most important-that of the status of us in the merchant marine, namely, that we were not actually one of the services-I would like to submit that though we were not, in several essentials, one of the services we were a de facto service. That is, there was a program comparable to the enlistment campaign in both the Army and Navy to induce men to join the merchant marine.

I remember out in my own home State of Kansas there was a considerable campaign, as almost every day we heard over the radio: "Serve your country in the merchant marine.'

Also, the maritime schools, such as Sheepshead Bay and Kings Point. had a disciplinary system that was like the Navy. And I know that at Kings Point they tried very hard to copy Annapolis, sometimes possibly overdoing it.

And the merchant marine probably had a greater percentage of men who went overseas than any other service. There were uniforms issued, ribbons were worn, decorations were given for those men who did heroic service, and it was put up in such a way that a young man going into it, after he got into it, realized he was in a semicivilian outfit and he still believed he was part of the armed services. And if he did not believe it, he was a draft dodger.

Well, quite a few young men, such as myself, did go into the merchant marine, and now that the war is over a lot of use are trying to go back to school. I am going to George Washington law school now myself. Some of them, as myself, were fortunate enough to have a little bit of money before the war, and are able to work their way through on what we can make now. There are others who did not have any money before the war and who are working their way through school now. Some, like my friend, are going to night school and will take about 10 years to get through. Others, like another friend I have in Chicago, actually started a business of their own, having their wife run it while they are trying to get through school.

But that is not really what this bill would be for. It is for the young kids who used to come on our ships, who were wipers and ordinary seamen and mess boys. They were 16 or 17 years of age. I know that these kids, a lot of them, did not even finish high school. And when they get back instead of 16 or 17 they will be 20 or 21 years of age, and the chances that they will be able to go on to college are very slim, or even the chances of being able to finish high school, in many cases, are very slim.

It therefore seems to me that this GI bill of rights which went through, as to educational rights, was to take GI's in the same situa tion-who came back much older than they were when they left-and much more experienced-and to give them an education that they would have had otherwise but because of the time interval would be discouraged from picking up where they left off.

It seems to me that that would be equally true of a seaman who gave up his education to serve his country in the merchant marine.

And I think there is merit to the one case, and there is merit in the other case.

For that reason, sir, I submit that this bill should at the very leastbe considered by Congress. And I hope it is passed by Congress. Now, if there are any questions I will be glad to try to answer them. Mr. TOLLEFSON. To your knowledge, Mr. Albright, did many men quit the merchant marine service during the war?

Mr. ALBRIGHT. Would you clarify that? Do you mean quit, say, for a month, to go home? Or do you mean quit, period.

Mr. TOLLEFSON. Let us take them both-quit, period, first.

Mr. ALBRIGHT. All right. I never knew one man who, in the early part of the war, quit the merchant marine for good. When I was back at Kings Point I knew some young boys who quit for good.

Mr. TOLLEFSON. How about these fellows who quit for a month or two to go home? Did that happen very often?

Mr. ALBRIGHT. It happened. I do not know how often it happened, but it happened; it definitely did.

Mr. TOLLEFSON. Would you say quite often?

Mr. ALBRIGHT. No; I would not say "quite often," because I remember our crews seemed to be pretty steady.

Mr. TOLLEFSON. You feel that although you are not considered a part of the services, so to speak, in effect you actually were? That is your view?

Mr. ALBRIGHT. In many respects I believe that we are like the services, but there are certain inherent differences that cannot be overcome and therefore we cannot be called part of the services.

Mr. TOLLEFSON. Did you feel that you were just holding down a job, or did you feel that you were actually serving your country. Mr. ALBRIGHT. We never called ourselves back at Kings Point. We always felt that we were serving our country.

Mr. TOLLEFSON. How did the fellows on board ship feel, as far as you could ascertain?

Mr. ALBRIGHT. The older men, probably, felt that they were doing both. And of the younger boys, some of the cynics would say: "We are just civilians." But I think the greater part felt they were serving their country.

Mr. TOLLEFSON. Did I understand you correctly when you said that a larger percentage of the merchant marine seamen went overseas than did men in the services?

Mr. ALBRIGHT. I do not know for certain, but I would say nearly 100 percent of the merchant marine men went overseas.

Mr. TOLLEFSON. And when they went overseas they were usually in the danger zone, were they not?

Mr. ALBRIGHT. Naturally, I would suppose that.

Mr. TOLLEFSON. You are concerned, apparently, mostly with the educational benefits that the bill might give?

Mr. ALBRIGHT. That is correct, sir.

Mr. TOLLEFSON. You think that large numbers of the younger boys who went into the merchant marine service will never go back to school unless they are given this assistance?

Mr. ALBRIGHT. I have a very good friend who graduated as valedictorian of his high school. He was high man in the engineering department at Kings Point-a brilliant young man. He is trying to struggle through school, and every day I feel that I am going

to get a letter stating that he has given it up because he is married. I have another very good friend in that position, who is working in a jewelry store.

Some of the boys are going back and some of them are not. I know that these younger kids are not going to go back.

Mr. TOLLEFSON. Do you feel that a great percentage of the merchant marine seamen would go to school under this bill?

Mr. ALBRIGHT. No; but I believe that you would have approxi mately the same percentage that you have in the Army and Navy. in the same age group. Of course a little time has elapsed. They had it right away. And if this bill goes through almost 2 years will have elapsed, and I think that would make a difference, too. Mr. TOLLEFSON. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman. Mr. BRADLEY of California. Mr. Bonner.

Mr. BONNER. Is there any distinction, in your opinion, as to who should benefit under this bill and who should not benefit?

Mr. ALBRIGHT. What do you mean by that?

Mr. BONNER. Is there any distinction in the service rendered in the merchant marine by one group as against another group? Mr. ALBRIGHT. Sir, I cannot think of any group of the merchant marine that is not deserving of this bill.

Mr. BONNER. You were in the merchant marine. You went to Kings Point. You were continuously in the service all the time, were you not?

Mr. ALBRIGHT. Yes, sir.

Mr. BONNER. You did not have any months off?

Mr. ALBRIGHT. I had 1 week off after I had been to sea for 8 months. They flew me up from Panama and I had approximately 2 weeks at home. And later, while at Kings Point, I had 1 week off. When I graduated from Kings Point I had about $30 in my pocket and was given 5 hours off before I shipped out.

Mr. BONNER. How long were you in the service?

Mr. ALBRIGHT. I was in the merchant marine cadet corps for? years. The war was over after that. I sailed after that for about 8 more months. 32 months in all.

Mr. BONNER. Your only appeal is for educational benefits? Mr. ALBRIGHT. I am not appealing for the other benefits because I do not know about them, sir. But I do know that this education

is needed. It is needed at least as much

Mr. BONNER. Well, you knew that the original intent was to grant the same bentfits to the men of the merchant marine that have been granted to the Army and Navy.

Mr. ALBRIGHT. Is that right, sir? I didn't know.

Mr. BONNER. You knew that, did you not? In other words, is that the original intention?

Mr. ÅLBRIGHT. I know what President Roosevelt said, and if that has never been raised in here I would like to clear it up, sir. This comes from the Congressional Record, so I suppose it is authentic. Mr. Roosevelt said, upon the occasion of the signing of the bill:

I trust Congress will also soon provide similar opportunities for the members of the merchant marine, who have risked their lives time and time again during this war for the welfare of their country.

We heard about that pretty quickly, and we assumed that a bill would naturally go through.