Mr. JOHNSON. But you would not care to commit yourself or your organization to any unwritten amendments, just from verbal expression?

Mr. GREEN. Not until we saw them and had an opportunity to read them.

Mr. JOHNSON. You would oppose any amendments that would thwart the purposes of this bill, or would delay the furnishing of materials to England, or might have that effect?

Mr. GREEN. We would be opposed to that.

Mr. JOHNSON. You believe that in emergencies like this that it is necessary that power be vested in the President in order to expedite the securing of materials and shipment of them, do you not?

Mr. GREEN. Yes, sir.

Mr. JOHNSON. I believe that that is all, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. EATON. Mr. Green, it is most reassuring to have a great organization such as you represent express their views so completely in accord with the great principles that have made our country the hope of the world for 150 years. I agree with your statement here today, and I am going to work as hard as I can to have most of your amendments made a part of this bill.

However, I think one of your statements is susceptible of a very dangerous interpretation at this moment, and that is that if all of these achievements of labor are to be retained in this crisis, it will be interpreted that labor is the only group that declines to make any sacrifices. I do not believe that, but it is susceptible to that interpretation.

Would you tell us how to avoid that?

Mr. GREEN. Well, Congressman, first I want to say that labor has repeatedly stated its position in that respect. We have assured the President and Congress and the Nation that we stand ready to make such sacrifices as any other citizen may be called upon to make in order to protect America, democracy, and our free institutions.

The preservation of these social and economic gains to which I have referred does not mean that we are not willing to sacrifice, or make the ordinary or even the extreme sacrifices that may be necessary in any emergency.

But we have learned in the school of bitter experience that when a great social and economic objective is reached, that it is very difficult to maintain it. It is harder to restore it than it was to originally pass it. And that is the reason why we feel it our duty to jealously guard these social and economic gains that labor has secured through years and years of sacrifice and effort. It is not that we are unwilling to make sacrifices.

In fact, two great branches of our organization voluntarily declared, in conferences held just a short time ago, that it was their fixed and determined purpose to prevent strikes, and to avoid strikes, and to refuse to engage in strikes during this national emergency. Now, is that not some sacrifice? That is the spirit of labor, and I am pleased to make that explanation to you.

Mr. EATON. Is that the spirit of labor, or the labor that you represent?

Mr. GREEN. That was the Metal Trades Department of the American Federation of Labor, the skilled workers who are employed in constructing the vessels, the Navy, the airplanes, and the tanks and

guns and all that goes into the war material needs. And then the great building and construction group that is engaged in building and constructing for national defense.

Mr. EATON. Thank you, Mr. Green.
The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Shanley.

Mr. SHANLEY. Mr. Green, under the provisions of the recent revenue act, it may be necessary to put in corelative protection for industry insofar as excess profits are concerned. You would not have any objection to that, would you? I mean this section is so broad, "notwithstanding the provision of any other law," that while we want to and will protect the rights of labor under the Walsh-Healy Act, and those other Magna Cartas, we also want to protect what we did for industry in the excess-profits tax, so that we could energize production. You would have no objection to that?

Mr. GREEN. I think that that would be fair and just.

Mr. SHANLEY. And that opens up a broad field that must be protected because of that wide, sweeping phrase?

Mr. GREEN. That is right.

The CHAIRMAN. Mrs. Rogers.

Mrs. ROGERS. Mr. Green, you have stated that labor would be willing, very willing, to cooperate in every way, but you felt that the gains that labor had made, such gains at such great sacrifices, must be guarded. Is it not true that some of labor works under very trying conditions, and the health of that labor must be guarded even as a matter of national defense, if you will?

Mr. GREEN. That is quite right. Of course, I did not want to impose on the time of your committee by going into that, but that is quite true, and we have learned much through the experience of workers in Great Britain, and we find from the reports that we receive, which are factual, that in Great Britain even though the workers there have shown a wonderful spirit, and have made amazing sacrifices and will continue to do so, that those in charge in Great Britain found it necessary to make adjustments of the working time by shortening the working periods in order to protect the health of the workers.

They found that better service would be given through that adjustment than it would by keeping them working extremely long hours. Mrs. ROGERS. They must be kept strong just as the men who go into the fighting line?

Mr. GREEN. They must be strong in order that the Nation may be strong.

Mrs. ROGERS. And labor, of course, is the backbone of the country, Mr. Green?

Mr. GREEN. Yes.

Mrs. ROGERS. Mr. Green, I was delighted to hear you say, in effect, and I think that you did say in effect, that your group wanted all agencies to report to the Congress in detail as the provisions of this law are being carried out.

I am so glad that you agree with me, because I have felt that full information should be given to us, and to labor and to the country. Mr. GREEN. We favor that.

Mrs. ROGERS. I will be very glad to support your amendment, and other amendments.

Mr. GREEN. Thank you.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Arnold.

Mr. ARNOLD. Did I understand you to say that all of the American Federation of Labor was willing to forego the right to strike, and to negotiate, especially those engaged in defense industries?

Mr. GREEN. Well, I explained, Mr. Congressman, that the two great departments of the American Federation of Labor, whose members are employed in the execution of our national-defense programs, had formally taken action as I explained, against strikes, and to avoid strikes and to refrain from engaging in strikes.

Now, the miscellaneous workers employed in miscellaneous trades, of course, are not organized into these departments, but I know that the action taken by the metal trades department and the buildingtrades department reflects the attitude and the judgment and the opinion of the other workers affiliated with the American Federation of Labor.

Mr. ARNOLD. Well, I am glad to hear you say that, because I am sympathetic to the objectives of labor, and your desire to retain the gains you have made, but I represent a district that is not very much unionized, and I want to say that my constituents would not stand for many more strikes before demanding that I vote for a bill to outlaw strikes.

Mr. GREEN. I am happy to say that the members of these departments to which I have referred have quite generally and in a most creditable way carried out the declaration. I have watched that carefully, and I am trying to keep the record, and I know that I can say that at this time.

Mr. ARNOLD. I congratulate your organization upon assuming that attitude.

Mr. CHIPERFIELD. Mr. Green, you stated that one of the reasons you wanted the rights of labor protected was that it was easier to vote away those rights than to get them back. That is rightly so. Now, does not the same reasoning apply that Congress should be very careful and make a close examination of the vast powers that we are going to give to one man, just as it is easier to vote away our rights than it is to get them back?

Mr. GREEN. Well, in an emergency, however-we have found out in emergencies during all of the years of our national life, that power must be given in some way in order to deal with the emergency effectively; that after all we in a democracy rely on Congress to guard and protect the rights of the individual, and we do not want the constitutional power vested in Congress taken away from them.

Mr. CHIPERFIELD. Do you feel that this bill speeds up production? Mr. GREEN. No; I do not understand that there is anything in it that provides for that.

Mr. CHIPERFIELD. Thank you very much, Mr. Green. I appreciate the suggestions that you have made very much.

Mr. VORYS. The resolutions that you read us were of course enacted by your convention long before anybody knew about any H. R. 1776, isn't that true, so that those resolutions are not anything directed to you with reference to any legislation which has since been drafted? Mr. GREEN. We anticipated this development and, of course, these reasonable men after the convention conferred upon their officers power and authority to carry out the spirit and purpose of their declaration.

Mr. VORYS. As I followed the resolution, they had to do with England, but had nothing to do with the type of legislation or other steps which should be taken in that regard.

Mr. GREEN. We interpret this bill as an instrumentality through which aid may be extended to England promptly.

Mr. VORYS. To the extent that this bill carries out your resolutions, it is in line with them, and that is a matter that you have decided for yourself, isn't it?

Mr. GREEN. And an examination of the bill by myself and my colleagues forces us to the conclusion that it will serve as the instrumentality through which moral and material aid may be effectively given to Great Britain, and we regard the situation as serious, that an emergency is here, and you see, Congressman, our free trade-unions are all wiped out in totalitarian countries, and the first democratic institution to be wiped out under a totalitarian form of government is the trade-union, and we know that if Hitler wins in Great Britain, the trade-unions go first and then we know if he comes to America, our trade-unions go and the individual becomes subject to the state. We see this in the very life of our democratic movement.

Mr. VORYS. Between conventions, what is there, a council, or executive committee?

Mr. GREEN. Executive council like a board of directors of a corporation, and power to interpret actions of conventions, and administer the affairs of the organization, the power to do that is vested in the executive committee.

Mr. VORYS. And has the executive council passed upon H. R. 1776? Mr. GREEN. No; not all members of the council, but the executive officers of the federation have.

Mr. VORYS. How many of them are there?

Mr. GREEN. And the council, when it meets, the whole matter is then submitted to them, but the council delegates to the executive officers the power to act for it during interims between meetings. Mr. VORYS. And how many executive officers are there?

Mr. GREEN. Fifteen.

Mr. VORYS. Thank you very much.
Mr. COURTNEY. I have no questions.
Mr. STEARNS. I have no questions.

Mr. EBERHARTER. Mr. Green, what can you tell us about the cooperation of the trade unions in England with the Government insofar as production is concerned? Is there full cooperation, or is there some disaffection?

Mr. GREEN. The facts are that the trade unions in Great Britain, all of them, are cooperating fully with the Government in the execution of its defense policies and, as evidence of that fact, the Government have brought outstanding labor representatives into the Cabinet, and these outstanding labor representatives occupy key positions in the policy-forming agencies of the British Government. Now, let me just refer to one great sacrifice these workers are making. The British Government called upon the trade unions in Great Britain to supply them with their funds. Immediately they responded, and the treasuries of these trade unions in Great Britain were all turned over to the Government. One item in the schedules shows that one trade union in Great Britain that had £350,000 in its treasury turned every dollar over to the Government without a single cent of interest.

The total amount turned over by the trade unions, their funds, the funds in their treasuries, totaled millions of dollars.

Now, in addition to that, as the emergency has become greater, the workers have made sacrifices, just like the workers in any country will make when the emergency requires.

Mr. EBERHARTER. Then, as I take it, while labor, trade-unions, and organizations which you say are willing to make sacrifices when necessary, they don't want some few employers to take advantage of this emergency in order to break down the labor gains that have been made recently.

Mr. GREEN. That is what we are trying to jealously guard against is to protect and preserve the gains we have made and then we wish that the interests of the employers shall be equally protected, and then, standing together, let us all give the best we have, and can give, in defense of our country.

Mr. EBERHARTER. That only occurred to me, Mr. Green, that if the amendments you suggest are adopted, that it makes it impossible to waive the provisions, say, of the Walsh-Healey Act, and National Labor Relations Act, or any of those other labor gains; it makes it impossible to waive those, and how would the labor unions do in case of a serious emergency?

Mr. GREEN. There doesn't seem to be any reason, Congressman, why they should be waived now; we are not at war.

Mr. EBERHARTER. I appreciate that. I agree with you wholeheartedly, but there certainly is no necessity of waiving any of those labor gains now, but if we put it into this act, and the emergency does become more serious, what should be done then?

Mr. GREEN. If war occurs, if we become involved in war and I hope we won't, then the Congress will be still functioning, and the Congress will take such action as the emergency may require.

Mr. EBERHARTER. Thank you, Mr. Green.

Mr. MUNDT. Mr. Green, there was considerable confusion when you started your testimony. I thought that I heard you say something in answer to the question of Mr. Vorys-did you say that the membership of the A. F. of L. had been polled on 1776 as it is, or that the executive board

Mr. GREEN. I wouldn't want to leave any wrong impression, Congressman. I said that of course H. R. 1776 was drafted following the adjournment of the convention. The convention expressed itself upon the general principle of extending all moral and material aid possible to Great Britain, and they did that by unanimous vote. The power to carry out the instructions of the convention is placed upon. the executive officers and the executive council. The executive council interprets the H. R. 1776 as an instrumentality through which the expressed wish of the convention may be carried out.

Mr. MUNDT. Then you repose in Congress and in the President the obligation to see to it that that modification "all means short of war" is kept clear in this legislation, don't you?

Mr. GREEN. Oh, yes; we think that there is no necessity for you to become involved in the war.

Mr. MUNDT. You do not want to take any unnecessary chances of getting into the war?

Mr. GREEN. That is right.