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Even though it is widely recognized that those actions and measures that help the universities strengthen their programs are good-even necessary for the country as a whole, there are other reasons for our belief that the NASA programs provide a superior mechanism for enabling the universities of the country to serve better the interests of the Nation.

The training grant program, for instance, reduces the tendency for those who have won fellowships in national competition to concentrate in a few prestigious institutions in a few States. And, by doing this, it also reduces the flow of the better qualified faculty members from their geographically dispersed points of origin to these few institutions. The national importance of developing and maintaining additional centers of research and academic competence has been widely recognized, especially now that the effect of such centers on the development and growth of local industry is well understood. On the opposite side of the coin, the effect of any truly significant geographical concentration of America's intellectual competence in a few areas should be equally clear.

With the research component, talent that could not otherwise be enlisted in the national service is made available. It should be clear that a local committee has a much greater opportunity to identify and enlist local talent than does a centralized Federal agency, especially since the talent we seek in this instance involves research competence, which is not necessarily correlated with the skills in persuasion often needed to win grants in national competition. It is even true that many of those possessing outstanding research competence are reluctant to enter into national competition for grants and contracts, not wishing to divert that much time and energy from their work. No centralized mechanism can identify and enlist these people, but local committees can do so, especially since the effort would become something not apart from, but actually a part of, their regular university responsibilities. The effect on the possibility of identifying and enlisting the service of outstanding young faculty members who have not yet developed a national visibility is obvious.

Only recently, the Senate Committee on Appropriations released Report No. 620 in which it noted that NASA "has initiated an academic grant program * * * Because of the overlap with other governmental grant education programs, the committee questions the propriety of such a program ***” In this, we feel, they are mistaken. From the standpoint of the universities, no other agency has an "academic grant program" with the features of this one. From the standpoint of NASA, no other agency has programs directed at discharging its responsibility for "the expansion of human knowledge of phenomena in the atmosphere and space." There is no evidence that we know of that indicates these programs take human or material resources from other programs. In fact, at most of those institutions at which these programs are located, up to 10 qualified students apply for every traineeship that can be awarded.

I should like to repeat: we strongly feel that the sustaining university program designed by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration is in the best interest of the Nation, is necessary for the discharge of the mission given by the Congress to NASA, and serves to strengthen America's university research and instructional competence. For these reasons, we hope that this statement can be read into the record of the hearings before your committee. Sincerely,

Chairman, Legislative Committee

of the Association of State Universities and Land-Grant Colleges.

(The biography of Mr. James E. Webb follows:)


President Kennedy appointed James Edwin Webb Administrator of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration on February 14, 1961.

Mr. Webb is a Member of the Federal Council for Science and Technology, the President's Committee on Equal Opportunity, and the National Aeronautics and Space Council, and is Chairman of the Distinguished Civilian Service Awards Board.

An attorney and businessman, Mr. Webb has served in high governmental and industry positions. He has been active in aviation and education. He is a former Director of the Bureau of the Budget and a former Under Secretary of State. He has been a vice president of the Sperry Gyroscope Co., New York

City, chairman of the board of directors of the Republic Supply Co., and a director of Kerr-McGee Oil Industries, Inc.-both with headquarters in Oklahoma City, Okla.—and a director of the McDonnell Aircraft Co., St. Louis, Mo.

In private life, Mr. Webb was a member of a number of Government advisory boards, including the President's Committee to Study the U.S. Military Assistance Program-popularly known as the Draper Committee. He has been engaged in many public service programs related to his long-term interest in science.

Born October 7, 1906, in Granville County, N.C., Mr. Webb graduated in 1928, from the University of North Carolina with a bachelor's degree in education. Later, he studied law at George Washington University, Washington, D.C., and was admitted to the District of Columbia bar in 1936.

In the early 1930's Mr. Webb became a U.S. Marine Corps Reserve Officer and pilot, and he currently holds a commission as a lieutenant colonel in the Marine Corps Reserve.

In 1936, he joined Sperry Gyroscope, serving during 7 years as personnel director, assistant to the president, secretary and treasurer, and vice president. Mr. Webb became an Assistant to the Under Secretary of the Treasury in 1946. Later that year, President Truman appointed him Director of the Bureau of the Budget, a position he held for 3 years. From 1949 to 1952, Mr. Webb served as Under Secretary of State in the Truman administration. From 1953 to 1958, Mr. Webb served as president of the Republic Supply Co., and became chairman of the board in 1958. Between 1952 and 1959, he engaged in a number of business activities, including aircraft manufacturing and accessories, oil equipment and supplies, banking, and law.

In 1959, Mr. Webb reduced his activity in business and returned to Washington, where until his appointment to NASA he devoted much of his time to public service. Activities in which he participated or continues to be active include:

President, Educational Services, Inc.; chairman, Municipal Manpower Commission; board chairman, Meridian House Foundation; advisory council, School of Industrial Management, Massachusetts Institute of Technology; Visiting Committee, Graduate School of Public Administration, Harvard University; Federal City Council, Washington, D.C.; trustee, George Washington University, Washington, D.C.; Advisory Committee, 1960-61 Presidential Transition Project, Brookings Institution, Washington, D.C.

Mr. Webb has been awarded the following honorary degrees: L.L. D., University of North Carolina, 1949; Syracuse University, 1950; Colorado College, 1957; George Washington University, June 1961; Sc. D., Notre Dame University, June 1961; Washington University, St. Louis, February 1962; and the University of Kansas City, December 1962. He also received honorary degrees from Northeastern University in Boston and Oklahoma City University.

Mr. Webb lives at 2800 36th Street NW., Washington, D.C., with his wife, son James Edwin, Jr., and daughter Sarah Gorham Webb. (Revised January 31, 1963.)


Mr. WEBB. Mr. Chairman, I had expected to ask you to let Dr. Newell give a statement of about 15 or 18 minutes and then read one that would take about 2 minutes and develop most of what you wanted through questions.

If this is more convenient to do tomorrow, I would be very happy to come back, because I think this is one of the most important subjects before the Space Agency and this committee.

The CHAIRMAN. Well, I intend to adjourn soon, if there is no objection. Therefore, I feel that perhaps what you have just now suggested might be the more acceptable way to do it.

Senator Smith was going to try to be obliging to you and submit you a list of questions, and you submit answers. But it is much better, I think, to ask those questions directly.

Mr. WEBB. Senator, I do have some facts with respect to personnel requirements which show very clearly that these figures that were used in the Senate yesterday by the opponents of our bill are clearly out of focus. They do not relate to any factual foundation in the studies we have made. I suspect some Senators may want to develop that, and this is one reason I have suggested we go over. When you get into that kind of discussion, it does take a little time.

The CHAIRMAN. Very well, if there is no objection, the committee will stand in recess until 10 o'clock tomorrow.

Mr. WEBB. Thank you, sir.

(Whereupon, 12:10 p.m., the committee recessed, to resume Friday, November 22, 1963, at 10 a.m.)






Washington, D.C.

The committee met, pursuant to recess, at 10:05 a.m., in room 235, Old Senate Office Building, Senator Clinton P. Anderson, chairman, presiding.

Present: Senators Anderson (presiding), Symington, Young, Cannon, and Smith.

Also present: Frank C. Di Luzio, staff director; Col. Harry N. Tufts, facilities assistant; William J. Deachman and Dr. Glen P. Wilson, professional staff members; and Eilene Galloway, special consultant.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Webb, we are very happy to have you here this morning. We are pleased to have you make any statement you wish to make. We are happy to have Dr. Newell with us.



Mr. WEBB. Thank you, Senator. I still have a very short statement, which I think will be more appropriate following Dr. Newell's statement, which will cover in considerable detail both the policy and operation of our university program. I would then like to refer to its basic value in the space program. So if you would permit Dr. Newell to go forward with his statement, we could, if you wish, take the questions together, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Whatever you wish.

Mr. WEBB. I would also like to say Dr. Newell represents one of the kinds of outstanding Americans who are at work in this program. During the war, he did some of the most important work on the guidance system for our ballistic missiles, working in the military service. Following the war and because of this interest, he worked with the German group who brought the V-2 rockets over here and flew them, as you remember, out at White Sands and developed the basic knowledge and interest on which our space program then went forward, taking the first pictures of cloud cover, making the first measurements out beyond the earth's atmosphere, and learning what it means to fly big rockets for space investigation.


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