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(11)

Mr. BRADLEY. Now will you go ahead, please?

Mr. BUTLER. The table on 262 of that report shows the wages for each rating on a vessel operated with a merchant crew and shows the bonus received by such crew members broken down into voyage, area, and attack bonus. It also shows the overtime payments and gives the total for each rating as well as the total for the vessel.

On page 258 of part 1 of the hearings on 2346 there is inserted a table showing the annual earnings of seamen in selected occupations whose employment in the industry ranged from 7 to 11 months during the period from October 1943 to September 1944.

Mr. BRADLEY. And these tables, as I understand it, are made up by the Maritime Commission, to the best of their knowledge, including all wages and other extraneous earnings during those periods?

Mr. BUTLER. As was explained then, the earnings data with respect to the seamen were taken directly from the company pay-roll records. Mr. BRADLEY. Which would include all bonuses.

Mr. BUTLER. All bonuses paid by the company on behalf of the War Shipping Administration.

Mr. BRADLEY. I am merely bringing that out definitely so it will appear; that is all.

Mr. LATHAM. Do these tables include allowance for mess?

Mr. BUTLER. I do not understand what you mean by "allowance for mess," sir.

Mr. LATHAM. In other words, I do not know just how they work it in the merchant fleet, but they feed the men.

Mr. BUTLER. Men are fed while on the ship and receive no cash allowance. However, if the vessel was in port and not feeding, they do receive a cash payment in lieu of getting subsistence. But those figures are not included in these statistics.

Mr. LATHAM. In other words, the cash payments and the reasonable value of the "chow" is not included in these figures?

Mr. BUTLER. No, sir.

Mr. MALONEY. Would that be a substantial amount while they were on shore leave?

Mr. BUTLER. In my opinion, that would be a very insignificant amount, because the vessel would ordinarily be feeding while a crew was aboard unless it was being fumigated or some special reason the crew was obliged to seek its food ashore.

Mr. LATHAM. Value of that service would run somewhere around $1 a day, would it not?

Mr. BUTLER. I should imagine that woud be fairly accurate.

Mr. BRADLEY. I am looking for a direct comparison between the total pay earned by merchant seamen and the total pay and allowances by military personnel of comparable positions.

Is there such a comparison in these tables? That is one of the hot contentions, as you know, of many objectors to this legislation, and therefore I am trying to bring out the facts.

Mr. BUTLER. On pages 260 and 261 the pay of Navy crew members of a Liberty vessel is listed and on page 262 the pay of a commercially operated Liberty vessel.

Mr. BRADLEY. Those are comparisons rather of vessel expenses than individual earnings unless one wants to work each out.

Mr. BUTLER. That is true; it would be difficult to get individual comparisons. It seems to me the outstanding conclusion to be drawn from at least a cursory glance would show that when the Navy operated

a Liberty vessel the total for the pay for the month was $25,516, and when War Shipping operated the same vessel, including the Navy guncrew pay, the total was

Mr. BRADLEY. But that is not the question under consideration. We are not trying to compare the Maritime Commission and the Navy. They are organizations which operate as they see fit. This is a personnel bill we are working on, and we are trying to compare individuals

concerned.

Mr. MALONEY. Put that last figure in.

Mr. BUTLER. About $18,000.

Mr. BRADLEY. He can put it in.

Mr. BUTLER. I did not intend, in any way, Mr. Chairman, to make any comments upon how the Navy operated a vessel, except that it is so obvious from the listing of the ratings on the vessel that they required about twice as many men.

Mr. BRADLEY. That is not within our province to consider or discuss. If the Navy feels they need twice as many men, that is their business and not ours.

Mr. BUTLER. That is correct, sir.

Mr. BRADLEY. We are working on a personnel bill and not a complement bill.

Mr. BUTLER. May I ask the chairman a question?

Mr. BRADLEY. I am trying to get to the comparison of individuals and not ships.

What is it?

Mr. BUTLER. May I ask the chairman a question?

Mr. BRADLEY. Providing it is pertinent.

Mr. BUTLER. Off the record, of course.

Mr. BRADLEY. We are not here to answer questions.

Mr. BUTLER. I wanted to explain my comments. This will be off the record, if you please.

(Off the record.)

Mr. BRADLEY. On the record.

Let us take page 262. There we find that able seamen were earning as an over-all figure $288 per month.

On page 261 we find that a coxswain, which I would compare with an able seaman-I have compared them that way throughout-is earning $145 a month, which is a great deal less. We find that even a chief boatswain's mate is listed as total earnings of $217 a month, as against $288 per month for able seamen. There is no possible comparison between the two grades.

I would say there we must not lose sight, however, of the fact that this military man, boatswain's mate, or the coxswain does have other benefits, such as retirement, and so forth, which do not accrue to the merchant seaman. But that comparison seems to be well set forth in the tables here.

Mr. SANDERS. Would the table on page 102 of part 1 be of any assistance, Mr. Chairman? It is a comparison of gross income of merchant seamen with Navy enlisted men after deduction of income taxes. Mr. BRADLEY. Very much so. That is one of the things I was looking for and had not been able to find. That is very important.

In this case they have compared, you will note, the able seaman with the Navy petty officer, second class, one grade above the coxswain to which I would make comparison. However, the difference is not particularly great.

You will find in that comparison that an able seaman receives $231.25, as compared to $193.20, not a great difference.

Mr. HAVENNER. What do those figures mean, after taxes?

Mr. BRADLEY. Yes; this is after everything is paid-after deduction of income taxes.

Mr. MALONEY. These figures include these bonuses?

Mr. BRADLEY. Including everything.

I would like to have this short table on page 102 of part 1 made a part of the record at this point. It is only a short table-a half page. (The table referred to is as follows:)

Comparison of gross income of merchant seamen with Navy enlisted men after deduction of income taxes

Mr. JACKSON. The figures you quoted, I believe, were the gross monthly figures.

Mr. BUTLER. Income tax has not been deducted.

Mr. BRADLEY. It says so at the top. It says, "After deduction of income taxes." I can read only the headings.

Mr. JACKSON. The net income is put down below, I believe, somewhat less than that. For instance, the able seaman, less estimated normal tax net income, $181.25.

Mr. BRADLEY. I see you are correct in that. The figures I was reading were prior to the deduction of income taxes, although the heading led me to believe otherwise. The final figures are at the foot of the table rather than at the beginning. I would, therefore, revise those statements by saying for the Navy petty officers, second class, these tables show a yearly earning of $2,308.68.

Mr. HAVENNER. For whom?

Mr. BRADLEY. Navy petty officer, second class. For the able seaman they would show a gross earning after deduction of tax of $2,132.28.