The Youth Correction Division has paroling authority over those committed under the Federal Delinquency Act, by the District of Columbia Juvenile Court, under the provisions of the Youth Corrections Act, and under the general criminal law but who are housed in some of the youth institutions.

A part of the estimated youth offender population in 1961 and 1962 will be approximately 300 offenders housed in a District of Columbia institution opened in September 1960.

1 The slight reduction in 1960 was due to 3 institutions formerly housing adult offenders being redesignated as "youth institutions."

The increase in 1960 was due largely because of hearings to determine parole eligibility.

Mr. ANDRETTA. Mr. Chairman, I would like to introduce Mr. Chappell, who is the new Chairman of the Board.

REQUESTED INCREASE FOR 1962

Mr. ROONEY. This request is in the amount $473,000 which would be an increase of $38,200. The increases are set forth at page 6-3. It appears that the bulk of the requested increase is for additional positions.

Mr. CHAPPELL. That is correct.

Mr. ROONEY. What do you have to say about this?

NEW POSITIONS

Mr. CHAPPELL. We are requesting four additional positions; two GS-11 analysts and two GS-5 secretaries.

The Board's work has increased considerably during the last 4 or 5 years and we have had no increase in personnel, I understand. I have not been on the Board very long and these estimates were prepared by my predecessor but I understand that after careful consideration they have arrived at these figures.

I would like to point out, Mr. Chairman, that the travel request increase of $1,000 and also $1,000 for other services for hearing reporters has no relation to the new personnel and are needed in any event.

We would like very much to have the additional personnel which we have requested and feel that we need.

"RENT" ASSOCIATED WITH NEW POSITIONS

Mr. ROONEY. Where is this item of rent, $5,000, needed?

Mr. CHAPPELL. That is something that we are required to set up for any additional personnel and at the rate of $1,250 per person for people here at headquarters. It should bear a relation to the number of persons you give us.

Mr. ROONEY. Are we to understand that if you were to hire four additional people-two GS-11 analysts and two GS-5 secretaries, who will work out of the Department of Justice Building here in Washington-you are required to set up $5,000 for rent for them?

Mr. CHAPPELL. That is my understanding. Perhaps these gentlemen can explain it better than I can.

Mr. ANDRETTA. We need to provide 200 square feet per person at $5 a square foot.

Mr. ROONEY. How many square feet do you have down there at that building?

Mr. ANDRETTA. In the Department of Justice Building?

Mr. ROONEY. Yes.

Mr. ANDRETTA. They are already over in the HOLC Building.

Mr. ROONEY. How much square footage do you have in the HOLC Building?

Mr. ANDRETTA. I do not have that with me.

Mr. ROONEY. Quite a bit?

Mr. ANDRETTA. Quite a bit, yes.

NEW SECRETARIES

Mr ROONEY. These two secretaries, Mr. Chappell, two GS-5 secretaries, are to be secretaries to the two analysts, are they?

Mr. CHAPPELL. No, sir. One of them is to be a secretary to the man in charge of the clerical staff for the Youth Division and one is to be a secretary to a Board member who does not now have a secretary.

Mr. ROONEY. Do all of the Board members have secretaries?

Mr. CHAPPELL. Yes, sir; except for this one, I believe.

Mr. ROONEY. Why could you not use a pool? How many members are on the Board?

Mr. CHAPPELL. Eight members.

Mr. ROONEY. Why could you not use a pool?

Mr. CHAPPELL. They are, in effect, a pool, Mr. Chairman. They have very little secretarial work but they have these Board orders that come in from the field and they have to attach a summary of the hearing memo to the file and prepare the file and bring it in.

Mr. ROONEY. The duties of the members of the Board of Parole require them to do quite a bit of travel; is that right?

Mr. CHAPPELL. That is correct.

Mr. ROONEY. These secretaries are going to travel, too?

Mr. CHAPPELL. No, sir; but they are kept busy.

Mr. ROONEY. Is this not a further reason why you should have a pool?

Mr. CHAPPELL. These people work for other persons, for the staff director and other members of the staff when the Board is in the field. They are kept busy, I assure you.

Mr. ROONEY. They are not on the payroll yet; are they?

Mr. CHAPPELL. I am referring to the ones that we have. The new ones of course, are not.

Mr. ROONEY. Everybody is working pretty hard right now?
Mr. CHAPPELL. Yes, sir.

"RENT" ASSOCIATED WITH NEW POSITIONS

Mr. ROONEY. Are we going to find more items through this budget such as this item of $5,000 for rent in order to put a couple of people on the payroll?

Mr. ANDRETTA. There is going to be a matching estimate for rent for most of the increases in personnel.

Mr. ROONEY. Have these ever been in the budget before?

Mr. ANDRETTA. No, sir; they have not.

Mr. ROONEY. How much is in this budget for rent under the same circumstances as those to which we are referring?

Mr. BROWN. $333,370 of which $126,000 is for new space.

Mr. ANDRETTA. Would you like a breakdown?

Mr. ROONEY. You should insert a chart in this regard at this point in the record.

(The chart referred to follows:)

Breakdown of estimate for rental office space included in 1962 estimates

Mr. ROONEY. What happens if the committee does not appropriate $333,370?

Mr. ANDRETTA. We have to go to GSA anyway to have them provide us with space that we need when we have to put on additional per

sonnel or for other reasons. They will just tell us they will not be able to provide it because we do not have the money for rent. They will then have to try to provide space for us in Government buildings where we do not pay rent.

Mr. Chairman, I guess the committee is familiar with this. This is a new pitch on the part of GSA and the Budget that the agencies now have to go in and get their rent money whereas we never had to do that before. We used to look to GSA to provide space for us in this respect.

Mr. ROONEY. Let us take the HOLC Building. Is that rented by the Government or owned by the Government?

Mr. ANDRETTA. It is owned by the Government.

Mr. ROONEY. The entire building is owned by GSA?

Mr. ANDRETTA. Actually it was owned once by HOLC and the Government, that is, GSA, took it over. GSA charges each agency in the building a so-called rent which covers the operational costs of the building, each agency contributes.

We have not had to contribute except for the Prison Bureau and Office of Alien Property.

Mr. ROONEY. This is a considerable sum. You could buy a number of apartments outright for $5,000 to set up four people in cooperative apartments.

Did you question these figures with GSA? Or did you just put them in the budget and lump them as $333,370?

Mr. ANDRETTA. No; we say we will need 200 square feet additional space per person because we are so badly cramped and if we add to our staff it means we have to get that much more space. GSA says that

here is the formula of 200 square feet per person at $5 per square foot and that is $1,000.

When you multiply that by more people and other costs, you run right up into money.

Mr. ROONEY. Let me try it this way: Are you going to increase the space that Justice now occupies in the HOLC Building?

Mr. ANDRETTA. No. We have no more space there, therefore we have to rent outside space in private buildings. We have to go outside in private space.

Mr. ROONEY. In order to put these four people on the payroll, we have to put them in another building?

Mr. ANDRETTA. Yes. It may be that the Board of Parole people will be put together and we will have to displace certain other people and go outside the building.

Mr. ROONEY. This sounds like one that certainly can be deferred permanently, do you not think, Mr. Chappell?

Mr. CHAPPELL. We would very much like to have it and if we do not get it, we will do the best that we can with what we have.

Mr. ANDRETTA. I would like to repeat that the rent is for outside space. If the GSA can find space in Government-owned buildings, we do not have a rent item.

I have a letter here from GSA transferring the cost to us for financing certain space, and also one to the Attorney General from the Director of the Bureau of the Budget that we now have to budget initially for general space purposes.

EMPLOYEES IN BOARD OF PAROLE

Mr. ROONEY. How many employees are there in the Board of Parole?

Mr. CHAPPELL. Forty-six at present, sir.

Mr. ROONEY. Where are they?

Mr. CHAPPELL. All in Washington.

Mr. ROONEY. Where are they located in Washington?

Mr. CHAPPELL. In the HOLC building.

Mr. ROONEY. All there together?

Mr. CHAPPELL. Yes, sir.

Mr. ROONEY. You could not possibly cramp these four positions, if they were approved, into the space you presently have?

Mr. ANDRETTA. The answer is "Yes."

Mr. CHAPPELL. Yes; we could.

Mr. ROONEY. That being so, you would still want this $5,000 for rent formerly budgeted by GSA?

Mr. ANDRETTA. Mr. Chairman, they will charge us for that if we put them in the HOLC building if we have to move others to outside space.

Mr. ROONEY. If you do not have money in your budget they can do all the charging in the world, is that right?

Mr. ANDRETTA. Yes, sir.

Mr. ROONEY. The whole thing is incomprehensible on the face of it, to add four people on the payroll and require $5,000 for rent.

Finally, Mr. Chappell, as the new Chairman of the Parole Board and since it is your first appearance before the committee, would you be so kind as to give us a brief biographical sketch of your background.

BIOGRAPHICAL SKETCH OF R. A. CHAPPELL

Mr. CHAPPELL. Yes, Mr. Chairman.

I was Chief of the Federal Probation Service in the Administrative Office of the Courts for about 12 years. Then I went on the Parole Board for 1 year and prior to that time I had been a Federal probation officer in Atlanta, Ga. Practically all of my work has been in the correctional field, probation and parole.

During the war I was in charge of prison administration for the Navy Department, and before I entered the Federal Service in 1928 as a probation officer in Georgia, I was a juvenile court probation officer for 1 year. I taught school for 5 years between 1954 and 1959, when I returned to the Board and practiced law in Georgia and also served as a deputy assistant attorney general for the State.

I have now had about 26 years of proud, and I hope lively service with the Federal Government. I agree thoroughly with the President when he says that the public service is a proud and lively service. Mr. ROONEY. Fine. Thank you, Mr. Chappell.

PERCENTAGE OF PAROLES OF YOUTHFUL OFFENDERS

Mr. MARSHALL. I notice that on page 6-10, the Board of Parole is headed "Youth Correction Division" and that you had a population on June 30, 1958, of 3,805 and you granted 1,511 paroles. Then in 1960, or last year, you had a population of 5,551 and you granted 1,945 paroles.