Mr. FEDER. I want to ask you a question about something so let me read this to you. One of the violations was that 1 hour self-rescuers were not provided for the workmen in two main sections and a violation was issued and time was given until 8 o'clock, June 1, for the operator to get the 1 hour self-rescuers.

Mr. DE VINCE. June 1.

Mr. FEDER. Now Senator Williams was in that mine this morning and men were wearing a blue box on their back. What is that?

Mr. DE VINCE. That is a half hour rescuer.

Mr. FEDER. Was anybody wearing the 1 hour rescuer ?

Mr. DE VINCE. Yes, the boss.

Mr. FEDER. Have you asked for another inspection? Have you demanded that the Bureau send in a new inspector?

Mr. DE VINCE. I am not on the safety committee, I am the president of the local. Now I can't answer. I don't know for sure if he asked for it or not. I can't answer.

Mr. FEDER. What we are really arriving at is that there may have been an injunction issued in southern Virginia and the Bureau may be proceeding as if this injunction ran across the whole country, which it does not.

But you still have the tools to get the Federal inspectors in there and all it takes is for the safety committeemen or some other representatives of the miners-it could be any representative of the miners to pick up that phone and call the inspectors, get those Federal inspectors out. You know the statute says an immediate inspection. Mr. DE VINCE. Let me tell you this. There was another Federal inspector that came down there afterwards and I didn't hear his report. He made the report but nothing has been corrected. Now the first inspector made the inspections; the second one as yet I didn't get anything from him.

Mr. OZONISH. If all the mines requested one. How would you get them when you don't have them?

Mr. FEDER. I don't know whether you would get them, but let the Bureau of Mines tell you they don't have them.

Mr. SIEGEL. You can try to ask.

Mr. OZONISH. Is this law effective now? Is it effective right now?
Mr. FEDER. No, this law is not effective the way it should be.

Mr. OZONISH. What good is it for the inspector to come in if we cannot enforce the law?

Mr. FEDER. If the inspector comes in and finds a violation, they have to make it effective.

Let's take this piece of paper. This is what they call a partial but representative inspection. Now they need only go through as much as 20th of the mine, and what you have to do is to make sure that they go through the mine and the only way you can make sure that they do that is to demand your rights under the act. That is why Congress put those rights there, so that you could demand it.

Now some of you fellows, I know, were in court on Wednesday. You remember one of the things the judge said, whether he was right or wrong, was that you have rights under the act.

Now I checked with the Bureau of Mines yesterday and they said they have not gotten one call from Maple Creek. This is what they said. But they could get a call from Maple Creek today. Now of

course you are going on vacation for 2 weeks but when that vacation period is over they could get a call the day you come back and they have got to come there.

Mr. O'BROCHTA. Now what about in-between times, the mine that men don't travel every day and the regular miner is not aware of unsafe conditions? Now the idea of having an inspector there is he makes a good check. Now if he would go to make a spot check here and there, you know yourself if you have an automobile that is supposed to be inspected you say, I will wait until inspection time. In the meantime, what are you going to do, travel in a death trap? That is the same way in a coal mine. If the inspector does not make an inspection between his State inspection and our inspection, which covers the territory pretty good in a 3-month period of time-we have not had an inspection now for quite a while the spot check is no good.

Mr. FEDER. I will suggest to you one thing, and I know the committee is going to be taking its own action in Washington. The Congress gave the Bureau of Mines $12 million 5 months ago just to implement this Health and Safety Act. The way you can force them to get the inspectors that they need is by continuing to call them and demanding that inspectors do come there every day.

Mr. O'BROCHTA. Last week there was an article in the paper where they may have to lay off a thousand men, close down the Broughton Testing Laboratory, because no money was available. Now you say they have $12 million.

Mr. FEDER. The Bureau of Mines was given $12 million pursuant to an amendment sponsored by Senator Schweiker and Senator Randolph in 1969.

Mr. SIEGEL. Now the Broughton facilities, research labs, they study alternate uses for coal. There have been some fund cuts which we don't support but we will do something about that. I don't think that a cutback in Broughton has any direct effect on the enforcement of this safety law, it is a separate account.

Mr. O'BROCHTA. It might not have that much effect on the direct enforcement on the safety law but it has a direct effect on the enforcement of the safety in the coal mine because that is the testing laboratory. Not more use for coal but what they can make safe for coal miners.

Mr. FEDER. There are two things. One, you can be assured that the committee will talk to the Bureau of Mines about this money as soon as we get back to Washington. I asked the Bureau of Mines at the direction of Senator Williams 2 weeks ago whether they have been authorized to spend that $12 million and they said yes, that there was no freeze put on the money for health and safety.

Now whether they are not spending it because of other reasons— they claim that they cannot find all the inspectors. Well, if you press them for the inspections and we press them on the money, they will find inspectors.

Mr. OZONISH. You are talking about a half hour rescuer and an hour rescuer. I don't think they have a 1 hour rescuer available.

Mr. FEDER. What do they have in that gray box? That is the one.
Mr. DE VINCE. One hour respirator. New 1 hour type.

Mr. OZONISH. We don't have them.

Mr. DE VINCE. Half the men have them, half don't. The boss has one.

Mr. OZONISH. Take care of them first.

Mr. SIEGEL. I remember they gave me a self-rescuer and they said, This is good for half an hour in a fire. I said, What about after that? Mr. ÖZONISH. Not much.

Mr. SIEGEL. They said, You better be out of the fire in 30 minutes. Mr. FEDER. We certainly appreciate this, and you will be hearing from the committee. We expect that you will continue to communicate with the committee as to what you think needs to be done.

Mr. DE VINCE. You know, if you have laws you should make some attempt to try to get them enforced.

Senator WILLIAMS. Gentlemen. Thank you. I want to say how much we appreciate your taking the time to be here. This hearing means a great deal. We learned a lot and that means a lot to us.

(Whereupon, at 11 a.m., the subcommittee adjourned, subject to the call of the Chair.)