Senator REED. Senator George, that is not the question. We might as well use plain language. Senator SHORTRIDGE. Let us speak out plainly. Senator REED. Yes; we will get to the point more quickly. The presence of syphilis is no bar to the payment of compensation for a service-connected disability. If the man has been disabled by his service, the mere fact that he incidentally also is syphilitic is no bar to his receiving compensation. Senator GEORGE. I understand that. Senator REED. The problem is whether we shall compensate him, or pay him money in addition to the hospital service that he now gets, because, as a result of his syphilis, he is disabled from work. Senator SHORTRIDGE. Let me ask the general this question. Under the present law a soldier over in France, we will say, was guilty of what we are pleased to call misconduct. He contracts this disease. What relief does the Government now afford him, if any? General HINES. He is afforded hospitalization and treatment at any time that a bed is available for him, and he needs hospital care. When that misconduct disability-assuming that it is syphilisreaches the point where he is paralyzed or blind, or has paresis, then he can draw compensation if the condition is directly or presumptively service connected. Senator SHORTRIDGE. Then the Government does take care of such a case. Senator WALSH of Massachusetts. When he is completely incapacitated. General HINES. There is this feature that we should not lose sight of, and I wish to say to Senator Connally that so far as I am concerned this matter of misconduct disabilities and compensation is a matter for the Congress. It is not a question of the bureau opposing it, because I am only following the policy that you have so far announced in connection with those disabilities. The CHAIRMAN. And that has been the policy in every pension bill since the first one we passed. Senator CONNALLY. That is no argument for it, because it has never been done before. The CHAIRMAN. I think the results have proven satisfactory, and I never shall encourage it, and shall never give a reward for it if I can help it. General HINES. There is this feature that we should not lose sight of, and that is that if a man shows up with arthritis, and there is a record in his medical history of a social disease, that case is a little more difficult to handle than an arthritis case where there has been no social disease disability, simply because the medical men know perfectly well that the large majority of arthritis cases come from that source. Senator REED. From venereal diseases? General HINES. From venereal diseases. Therefore, they naturally in the first instance look to that as the cause, and the man is under somewhat of a handicap in establishing his service connection for arthritis if there is a history of venereal disease. Senator CONNALLY. In that instance, instead of rewarding him, you are penalizing him. The CHAIRMAN. Not if he can prove his innocence. Senator CONNALLY. You have a prima facie case against him. Senator GEORGE. That was the class of cases to which I had reference. General HINES. Those cases would be in here, under H. R. 10381 as it passed the House, because that is a chronic constitutional disability and because the misconduct clause is removed. Now, we must give consideration to the fact that during the war something like 357,000 men were treated in our hospitals for venereal diseases. Senator REED. About 7 per cent. General HINES. Yes. So that you can get some idea from that number as to the probable number that would be taken in if you adopted this principle. The CHAIRMAN. Was there a greater percentage in Europe, or overseas, than in this country? General HINES. No. That was the total number. Doctor MCDERMOTT. There was a larger percentage within the Continental limits of the United States. Senator REED. Does not the civilian population of the United States assay about 7 per cent veneral disease? Doctor MCDERMOTT. Slightly under 10 per cent. Senator SHORTRIDGE. It may not be necessary for others. to have you repeat, but I want to understand finally what now is done with a young man who is guilty of this so-called-and perhaps actualmisconduct, or violation of rules, and who is suffering from venereal disease. General HINES. Nothing until he becomes blind, paralyzed, paretic, helpless, or bedridden except to treat him in the hospital; if a bed is available and he needs hospital treatment. Senator SHORTRIDGE. He may go to the hospital and there receive treatment. General HINES. Yes, sir; if he needs such treatment and a bed is available. Senator CONNALLY. I want to ask the General a question on that. When they do go to the hospital, they only give them this course, which takes about two or three weeks, does it not? General HINES. It depends entirely on what the infection is, but they are kept there until they are cured. Senator CONNALLY. I want to take issue with you. I had a case about a month ago where they said they had taken him and put him through, and that he was through so far as they could do anything with him. He had to go out and stay about two or three months, and then come back and take another shot. General HINES. I do not know just what type of disability it was. Senator CONNALLY. He was out at Walter Reed. General HINES. They may treat them a little differently in that hospital than we do in our hospitals, with that particular disability, but I know that in our hospitals we have wards that are usually isolated. Senator CONNALLY. I am not criticizing. General HINES. The men are taken care of until it is safe for them to leave. Senator CONNALLY. If you take those cases and put them in a hospital and keep them there continually until they are cured, it would be a different proposition, but I do not agree with the doctrine of the strict rule. Here is a poor devil who went into the Army. He was removed from all the refining influences of his home and family and society. Everybody who has been around the Army knows what happens. The boy who got infected was just one. The other fellow was lucky and did not. I do not think a great Government ought to permit those soldiers to go around as public charges with this loathsome disease, without compensating them, because of this indiscretion. The CHAIRMAN. Why not compensate all of them that go around with this loathsome disease? Senator CONNALLY. All soldiers? The CHAIRMAN. No; everybody. Senator CONNALLY. I do not agree with the Senator's viewpoint about that. The Army, instead of penalizing them during the war, set up a medical agency and said "It is wrong for you to run around, but if you do run around, you come up here and take this antiseptic treatment, and there will be no questions asked. It is all right.” That was more or less a tacit invitation for those soldiers to indulge their bestial instincts, and, of course, they did. Of course, some of them got stung. General HINES. Of course, the theory of that, Senator, was to maintain the forces as effectively as they could. Senator CONNALLY. I understand. It is a good purpose. General HINES. Even in time of peace, the Regular Army has the same rule. Senator CONNALLY. I approve it. I think they ought to give them all sorts of vaccinations, and so forth. Senator SHORTRIDGE. When a man is totally disabled through this disease, as I understand, he is then taken care of permanently. General HINES. Yes. Senator WALSH of Massachusetts. And compensated. General HINES. Yes. Senator SHORTRIDGE. Then, under the present law, we do have regard for him, and, in a sense, notwithstanding the original proximate cause of his trouble General HINES. I think, Senator, the only point we might be criticised for on the present policy is the question of whether we take the case soon enough. I think the feeling on the part of those who advocate extension is that in those cases-syphilitic cases-where we know the final result, we ought to take those men in sooner. The CHAIRMAN. How do you know, General? General HINES. Of course, we do not always know. General HINES. Our hospitals are open, but I believe there is a feeling on the part of a number that those men are charges upon certain communities earlier than when they get on our rolls. Whether that is so or not, we can not tell. They The CHAIRMAN. But, General, they can make application. can come in at any time whenever they feel like it, but they do not want to do it until it develops so that they feel it is necessary. General HINES. Then, there is the factor that we mentioned the other day, of course, in that many of them have families. They try to carry on as long as they can, and then break down. The question of the family immediately comes up in all these problems. The CHAIRMAN. Certainly. Senator SHORTRIDGE. Is it generally understood that they have this right or privilege? General HINES. Oh, yes. Senator SHORTRIDGE. It is generally understood? General HINES. It is very well understood. The service organizations are familiar with it, and, of course, they keep them posted. Senator CONNALLY. When a man goes to a hospital he gets no compensation, his family is helpless, and that deters him from going, does it not? General HINES. If he gets to the point where it has developed to the point where he is blind, or has paralysis, or paresis Senator CONNALLY. Of course, if he is dead, he gets something, probably, but as a matter of fact, until he does get blind or helpless, he is deterred from going to the hospital with no compensation, on account of his family, and the need for him at home to provide for them. Is that not true? General HINES. That is right. Senator CONNALLY. Is it true that the United States is the only great Government that raises this objection on account of these diseases? General HINES. No. It is my understanding that they all raise it. Doctor Cooley, you had some data on that. Doctor COOLEY. It is my understanding that it is done with every Government. Senator SHORTRIDGE. I do not quite understand the force of the answer. The CHAIRMAN. Every Government takes it into consideration the same as we do. Mr. RANKIN. It was stated before the Veterans' Committee in the House that we were the only country which excluded it. Doctor COOLEY. I think that is wrong. Senator WALSH of Massachusetts. The fact that a man has a social disease does not of itself prevent him from getting compensation. General HINES. No, sir. Senator WALSH of Massachusetts. If he can show some other disease that can be connected with service. General HINES. That is correct, Senator. Senator WALSH of Massachusetts. Therefore, this question arises only in those cases where a veteran petitions for compensation, and he is examined, and you find the only disease from which he is suffering is traceable to the social disease. General HINES. That is correct. Senator WALSH of Massachusetts. And it is only in those cases that you deny compensation? General HINES. That is correct. Senator WALSH of Massachusetts. But a man may have a social disease and get compensation because he has some other disease that is traceable to the service. General HINES. I think possibly the arthritis cases are the most striking example of that. Senator GEORGE. General, I do not understand the rule to be just. as Senator Walsh states it. If he has arthritis which might have arisen from some other cause, but he is not able to show any other cause, and it does appear that he has a venereal disease which also might have produced it, he has a very difficult case. General HINES. As I stated before, Senator, I feel that he has a more difficult case than the man who has never had a social disease. Senator GEORGE. He has a rather impossible case, has he not? General HINES. No. I know of cases that have been connected. I would not say it is impossible. I would say it is a much more difficult case than the case of a man who has a clear record. I think that is the fairest way to put it. Doctor COOLEY. I do not think it would be fair to the physicians to state that they approach a case of arthritis with the assumption. or the preconception that it is of syphilitic origin. They approach that case with the idea of making an impartial investigation into its character. If there is a history of syphilis, Wassermann tests are taken to eliminate syphilis. But they do not approach it with the preconception that it is syphilitic in origin. Senator GEORGE. I know, Doctor; but if you do not find any other cause, you attribute it to that. Doctor COOLEY. If you have the history, you can not eliminate it. General HINES. I may have overlooked some points, but in closing I only desire to say this, that in approaching this problem, and in making recommendations on these bills, it has been the feeling on the part of the bureau that if there is any doubt on the part of Congress that there are men who have service-connected disabilities, and we are not connecting them with service, it might be a reasonable thing to set up a special board and give them authority similar to the authority given to a court to finally settle these cases. If you depart from the underlying principles of the World War veterans' act, then most certainly you will have adopted an entirely new system from that with which we started, to take care of the World War veterans. It would appear to me to be the part of wisdom not to take in such a large group of these cases that the Congress would then find it so difficult later to bring about a system of caring for the veterans of the World War, finally, that would result in a large number of veterans of that war being placed upon the rolls-either compensation, or pension, or whatever it may be-at such rates that inequalities would be apparent. It appears to me that we ought to take in at this time, at least until such a study is made, those groups of disabilities where there is reasonable medical opinion that their disabilities might be due to service. Senator CONNALLY. May I ask you one other question, General? Under this class of cases that come under the heading of willful misconduct, what other cases are included than those just mentioned under the head of social diseases? General HINES. Under this broad provision, a man who Senator CONNALLY. I am speaking of the situation at present. What cases are excluded because of willful misconduct other than the sexual cases? If a man shoots his foot off, and they can prove he did it purposely, that is excluded. General HINES. That is the group; also a man who was injured as the result of trying to escape, or something of that kind. That would be Senator CONNALLY. Suppose a man got drunk and got in the way of an automobile, and it ran over him during the war. willful misconduct, would it not? |