H. OF R.]

Occupancy of the Oregon River.

[DEC. 31, 1828.

had dwelt upon with so much complacency, as a sort of struction. But to return from that disgression, into which he argument against the adoption of a measure of an entire had been led by the desire to pay his humble tribute to the ly distinct nature. Mr. F. briefly described the object acknowledged merits of those distinguished individuals. of the Yellowstone expedition, and narrated the peculiar He had seen General Clark, whose friendship he had the circumstances attending the attempt to accomplish it. In-honor to enjoy from his earliest youth, and than whom no stead of its being a matter of surprise, as the gentleman man could be better versed in the knowledge of every subfrom Missouri stated, that the persons engaged in that en- ject appertaining to the question then before the committerprise had failed in their endeavor to reach the project- tee. That gentleman, in reply to his question, had given ed point, it was actually amazing, considering the difficul- him information upon which, he would stake his reputation, ty they had to encounter, that they succeeded in pene- the most implicit reliance might be placed. His descriptrating so far as the Council Bluffs. The honorable mem- tion of the country was, to speak briefly, that many parts ber had seized that fact, and put it in requisition, to serve of the land were very good, very fertile, in particular on his own side of the question then before the Committee: the water courses; but some of it was bad. It was not, on he had expatiated, also, very diffusely, on those natural the whole, equal to the land in Ohio and Kentucky. Such disadvantages of soil, climate, and condition, which might was General Clark's statement to him; of course, it would be observed to a certain extent to prevail in the Oregon not be supposed that the average quality of the land in that territory, in common with every other country it had country equalled the rich and luxuriant valley of the Missis ever been his fortune to see. He, [Mr. F.] had not de- sippi. Much had been said of the tremendous range of scribed that country as an El Dorado-as a land flowing mountains which bordered upon that country, and of the with milk and honey; but he had spoken of it as it was; difficulties attending the unhappy beings whose hard fate and so far from overstepping the modesty of nature in his had destined them to cross it. Ideas the most exaggerated, account of it, he had studiously guarded against the ex- and notions the most false, had been entertained on the subpression of any opinion which the most distrustful or in- ject. Those mountains did not form one continued ridge, as credulous of his hearers might consider as too sanguine. appeared to be imagined by the gentleman from Missouri, And yet there was one particular and striking fact which [Mr. BATES] when he talked of the insuperable barrier which called loudly for the attention of those who were then separated the States from the projected territory. In point listening to him. The gentleman from Missouri, after his of fact, those mountains rather resembled a chain of tumuli, picturesque and ingenious sketch of the obstacles met running across the country. Whilst their summits were cowith in a passage across the Rocky Mountains, had, in the vered with eternal snow, the roads for the traveller wound very next breath, spoken of the expedition of Gen. Ash- through the valleys, the richness and fertility of which might ley every year, or every two years, across that range of be judged of from the fact, that the grass grew in them, mountains, in search of furs, attended with an hundred or spontaneously, to the height of more than two feet. It an hundred and fifty men, and four or five hundred horses was not necessary for him to refute the arguments respecting or mules. What should prevent others from traversing the inaccessible aspect of the country, further than by the those savage deserts; those regions of eternal storm and plain and simple statement of facts which he had submitted tempest, as they had been called, on a former day, by the to their consideration.

The very

gentleman from Massachusetts, [Mr. GORHAM] with equal Mr. F. then said he had, perhaps, already detained the facility All he could say, was, that the military officer Committee too long; but he must beg permission to trouwho could not conduct an hundred or two hundred men, [ble them with a few more observations. One point more in perfect safety, through the country, as even the oppo- especially should not be lost sight of. They should be nents of the bill admitted was done by Gen. Ashley, was particularly cautious in receiving the testimony of indivi unworthy to hold the commission of the United States. duals engaged in the pursuits connected with that country. After a brilliant and merited eulogium on the character of Many of them were employed by the Hudson Bay Comthe American army-of the mingled caution and coolness pany; others were the agents of private associations or of of its mode of attack, and the impetuosity of its onset, individuals. Most of them were induced, from motives of and of the singular capacity displayed by both officers interest, to give wilful misstatements in answer to inquiries and soldiers for adapting themselves, on the instant, to any which might lead, if frankly and honestly replied to, to disspecies of warfare, Mr. F. returned to his argument. turb or break up their trading establishments. The evening before the gentleman from Missouri had person alluded to as the agent of that respectable gentlemade the observation to which he had alluded, he [Mr. man of New York, Mr. Astor, and who sold the fort which FLOYD] had had a conversation on that very subject with had been constructed on the Oregon river, at the settlea gentleman, whose opinion he was confident would have ment of Astoria, was himself a British subject; and the sale great weight in that House-he meant General Clark, the and transfer of that fort to another British subject was not, gentleman who, in conjunction with the late Governor he understood, considered by Mr. Astor-who he must obLewis, conducted the memorable exploring expedition serve fully merited the proud title of an American merchant, to that country, during Mr. Jefferson's administration, more by which the gentleman from Missouri [Mr. BATES] had than twenty years ago. The selection of those gentlemen designated him--as a rigidly honest, or, at least, as a strictly for the arduous and hazardous undertaking to explore those honorable transaction. That settlement had been establishremote and unknown regions, was not the least exempli- cd but one year; and in the course of that very short period, fication of the intuitive sagacity and deep insight into the the settlers had accumulated furs to the value of three hunhuman character for which that illustrious statesman had dred thousand dollars! The agent disposed of the fort been so deservedly celebrated. Both were peculiarly and establishment for the comparatively trifling sum of adapted for the difficult and delicate task imposed upon sixty thousand dollars. Was not the fact of such a vast them; both were possessed of great penetration; of energy amount of property as three hundred thousand dollars, of mind; of indefatigable and unwearied perseverance; and being collected at one settlement in the space of one year, of determined, though, at the same time, of cool and deli- an irrefragable proof of the advantages of the trade? If berate valor. General Clark, in particular, was eminent for then the committee in the House should choose to strangle these qualities; every gentleman in that House, familiar with the American fur trade, American citizens must look to the history of that expedition, must recollect the passage in England alone for a supply of that valuable article, which which Gov. Lewis, in relation to a critical and dangerous they might, under a just and proper system of policy, obcollision with the Indians, states that nothing but the extra-tain at the very threshold of their own country. If the ordinary presence of mind and decision of character dis- bill was rejected, the United States must be content to see played by his colleague, saved the whole party from de- the ginseng, the sandal wood, the furs, and the peltry,

DEC. 31, 1828.]

Occupancy of the Oregon River.

[H. of R.

which composed so valuable a branch of their foreign com- twelve hundred miles from Astoria. These outposts must merce, carried to Great Britain, and swelling up, with the be, in a greater or less degree, fortified, not, indeed, by exportations from Quebec, the quantity of those commodities works capable of resisting the assaults of English or Rusimported into England, to the prodigious amount of six mil-sian cannon, but in a manner strong enough to repel the lions of dollars annually. The large profits on that vast attacks of the ignorant and ill-armed savages that surround sum, would thus be lost to the Union, and contribute, them. It is at these interior positions that the fur is colthrough the folly and fatuity of America, to the enrichment lected from the Indians, and afterwards concentrated at of foreigners. It was necessary for him, at that protracted the mouth of the river for exportation. A party for the period of the debate, to allude to points, which, viewed in interior exploration of the country of the Columbia, connexion with the great objects of the bill, were, perhaps, should be composed of very different materials, and orof trivial moment; or, he might speak to them of the valu- ganized in a very different manner, from one destined to able produce of the fishery in the Columbia river, and make an examination and survey of the coast. Indeed, its harbor and bay. In the article of salmon alone, it was the latter is wholly unnecessary: for the coast is already an incontrovertible fact, that it could furnish sufficient for known in its general aspect, and I believe every bay and the supply of more than fifty thousand men. In conclusion, harbor, from Cape Disappointment to Cook's Inlet, has he expressed a fear that he had weil nigh exhausted their been surveyed and sounded. Not so with the interior; patience. He had, to the utmost extent of his feeble pow- of that we are still lamentably ignorant. ers, endeavored to place the subject before them in its Mr. B. said that he should have forborne any further true and proper light, and to found the arguments which remark upon this subject, but he felt called upon to make he had adduced in support of his view of the question a brief reply to some observations of the gentleman from upon a firm and solid basis. Whether he had succeeded Virginia, the original mover of the proposition, [Mr. in the attempt, to the conviction of the committee, as to the FDOYD] who seemed to have misunderstood him in several expediency of adopting the proposed measure, it was for respects, and, in his argument, to have confounded severthem to say; if so, as he would fain flatter himself was the al matters that had no necessary connexion with each case, it remained for the House to act upon the bill before other. Any man, said Mr. B. at all acquainted with the them. Northwest section of this continent, or with the routes Mr. FLOYD subsequently submitted to the House a commonly followed by the fur traders, and other explorchart of the river and the country in its immediate vicinity, ers of that extended region, must know that the country, which he had received from the Secretary of the Navy. as a whole, is very imperfectly known, and that every Mr. BATES, of Missouri, rose, and said he was right general characteristic description ought, in common jusglad that the gentleman from South Carolina [Mr. DRAY- tice, to be received subject to many petty exceptions. If, TON] had thought proper to offer his amendment. It therefore, the gentleman from Virginia had succeeded in meets [said Mr. B.] my views in the most essential particu- showing that there are some exceptions to the steril and lar, and removes many of my objections to the bill. In-inhospitable character of the country, it would avail him deed, when I first had the honor of addressing the Com- nothing in the argument. He might prove a thousand litmittee, I suggested the propriety of substituting for the tle green spots, at distant intervals, in that extensive deoriginal bill a scientific exploration of that immense re-sert, and still the country would remain a barren and gion, of which we yet know so little. Many positive ad- cheerless waste--still my account of it would remain unvantages might be gained to the nation from such an ex-impeached. I believe it is perfectly just, and I know it ploration, and we should at least be saved from the proba- is in accordance with the most respectable testimony. ble evils attendant upon a leap in the dark. As yet, we The gentleman from Virginia has recently received know little of the geography of that extensive country, from General Clark what he considers a favorable acand almost nothing of its topography and geological pe- count of the Oregon country. General Clark is a good culiarities. The natives, too, are strangers to us. We witness on this subject, and I take it for granted that his are very imperfectly informed as to their localities, their best evidence is embodied in his book, Lewis and Clark's numbers, their tempers, whether peaceful or warlike, Travels; for the facts there related are ascertained by ocand their general character and habits; and I consider it cular observation. Examine that book, sir, and you will of great importance that we should acquire a competent fund of knowledge on these particular subjects of inquiry, before we attempt the establishment of social and civil institutions among them. My objections to the military occupation of the country are fewer, and of a less decided character, than to the establishment of a territorial government, and the extension of our civil polity there. The former may be a dangerous, and certainly will be an exThe gentleman is utterly mistaken in his version of the pensive experiment; but the latter is, in my judgment, information which I gave the committee, as derived from pregnant with evils of an alarming character: for I should my enterprising townsman, General Ashley. His route consider it nothing short of an entering wedge to a system lies far south of the sources of the Columbia. Crossof foreign colonization. But, if the country must be gar- ing the range of the Rocky Mountain, where it subsides risoned by our troops, the amendment seems to me objec- almost into a plain, presenting few obstacles to wheel cartionable, in requiring the forts to be established on the coast. riages, and none to pack horses, he makes his trading [Mr. DRAYTON explained. He said his amendment post at the Great Salt Lake, which I suppose to be the was misconceived: it was not imperative as to the location reservoir of the Bonaventura. I am sorry the gentleman of the forts, but left the question of locality subject to the did not listen to my former remarks more attentively. If discretion of the President.] he had, he would not have confounded what I said of an Mr. BATES proceeded. I am glad it is so: I understood exploring trip of one of Ashley's men from the Salt Lake, it otherwise when read by the Clerk. If the object of southwest, towards the Gulf of California, with the dethe military occupation be the protection of the fur trade, scription which I attempted of the gloomy mountains and it seems to me that the coast is an improper location of pathless valleys of the Oregon-valleys which, I say the troops: for, if I am rightly informed, most of that traf- again, and on the best authority, are impracticable for fic is carried on far in the interior, on the tributary branch- horses or mules-valleys where the natives travel on the es of the Columbia, and in the distant valleys of the moun- water, and live in the earth. tains. Some of the outposts were, formerly, at least

find a most appalling description of the country. They say that the only good land for cultivation, in the valley of Columbia, is sufficient to support about forty thousand agriculturists! And I have it on the authority of Mr. Hunt, a gentleman surpassed by few in intelligence, and by none in respectability, that even this meagre exception is subject to annual inundation in May and June.

The gentleman from Virginia has so long and so zea

H. OF R.]

Occupancy of the Oregon River.

But the

[DEC. 31, 1828. lously dwelt upon this subject, that he seems to have ar- my judgment, but little qualified for the extraordinary purrived at the conclusion that nothing is wanting but a little poses of such an expedition. The common men are disaid from the Government, to make this river of his adop-qualified, by education and habits, for a service so novel tion a great channel of North American commerce, and and peculiar; and even the talented and valuable officers the establishment at its mouth the great entrepot of East-furnished by that admirable institution the West Point ern and Western intercourse. To swell the magnitude of Academy would find all their elaborate science and skili the enterprise, he draws into his calculation the total ex-of little avail in a scene so novel, and so wholly different ports of furs and peltries from the United States and from the general course of military movements. Canada; he presses into his service the Hudson's Bay gentleman gets over all these difficulties by the assumption Company, Lord Selkirk, and Mr. Astor; and embraces in of a very flattering fact. It seems to me, we are all fit to his compendious view the coast of the east and the west, command the armies of the republic. We are all born from Labrador to Mexico, and from Oonalaska to Califor-generals. I am sure, sir, that I possess little or nothing nia. And, not content with monopolizing the whole fur of this military inspiration; and I cannot help fearing that trade of the continent, for the intended province of Ore-the honorable gentleman has been led into the charitable gon, the gentleman stretches his commercial views to error of imputing to all his countrymen the possession of other sources of wealth and power; the intended people these high qualities of command by his own consciousof that country are to drive a thriving trade in ginseng nesss of possessing them. It is related of King Philip and sandal wood! Sir, it may be so; ginseng grows al- of Macedonia, that he was astonished at the wonderful most every where on this continent; but, as for sandal abundance of military genius among his enemies, the wood, who ever heard of a chip of it at the Oregon! It Athenians, who annually elected ten generals to command grows only between the tropics, about 25° of latitude their troops, by diurnal rotation; whereas his majesty of south of this favored river. With all respect, I must be Macedon could find, in all his dominions, no man but Parpermitted to say, that these calculations are ideal and vi- menio, fit to command his armies. I cannot tell whether sionary. Let the Government put forth all its strength, we most resemble the subjects of King Philip or the citi and pour out all its treasures, it cannot change the charac-zens of Athens; but I am strongly inclined to the opinion, ter of the country or the river; the one will remain steril that we are not quite all generals, fit to be entrusted with and inhospitable, and the other will continue hard to en- the safety of the blood and treasure of the nation. Were ter, and still harder to navigate. No furs will seek an out-I about to plan such an expedition, I would authorize the let through the Columbia but those caught upon its own Executive to enlist a corps for the special purpose. I waters, or their immediate vicinity; and if you establish would empower him to choose men, both to command and on that river a province with a population as dense as that to serve, whose former vocations, whose habits and pecuof China, and build a fortress as strong as the seven tow-liar qualifications, would afford some guarantee of ultimate ers of Constantinople, you can draw no more: the physi-success. It is not the business of a day; it takes two seacal difficulties of the country forbid it. sons to convey troops from the Mississippi to the Oregon.

The whale fishery, too, it seems, it to be made tribu- The first winter must necessarily be spent on the Upper tary to the commercial importance of the intended ter- Missouri, near the country of the Mandan Indians, where ritory.

Ask any gentleman from Massachusetts-ask preparations must be made for the toilsome and perilous your Nantucket whalers-whether any one of their ships journey of the next season. All the privations of a wilever touched at the Oregon, and they will tell you that, derness of three thousand miles in extent, must be encoun if one was ever there, it was driven there by some cala-tered, and numerous tribes of the wild natives must be pas mity. Yet, who, that knows the character of that wonder-sed, all of whom must be either conciliated or subdued. ful people, will doubt that, if there was any thing desira. In such a service, the labored acquirements of military ble in the harbor of the Oregon, their sagacity would have science would be of little avail, and the impetuous ardor discovered it, and if it were worth contending for, their of insubordinate valor would be impertinent, and worse enterprise and courage would have made it their own? than useless. The commander of such a corps should be haThey are the best navigators in the world, and not bad bituated to the wilderness; he should possess a calm, cool, judges of their own interest. In their bold pursuit of and forbearing intrepidity, and a deep acquaintance with wealth, they have already discovered about one hundred the workings of untutored nature. By the exercise of and fifty islands in the trackless waste of the Pacific, whose some of these valuable qualities, Clark saved the whole bays afford them every convenience in the pursuit of their party of which he was the second in command. The vocation, and secure shelter in times of danger. I am not private men, too, should be selected for their particular surprised at the different and contradictory accounts given aptitudes and qualifications. And, for such employment, of the Oregon, as a harbor for ships; and I attribute the where will you find men to compare with the hunters and disagreement to the different seasons of the year at which boatmen of the North and West-the hardy sons of the it was visited, or the prevalence of particular winds, when forests, the lakes, and the rivers, whom no dangers can it was entered or departed from. daunt, no toils exhaust, no privations subdue? Men whose I have been accused [said Mr. B.] of blowing hot and adventurous steps have measured every prairie in the cold, as to the value of the trade of that country-of pre-boundless West, and whose bark canoes have traced every tending, at one time, that it is worthless, and, at another, stream in the dark valleys of the mountains. that it is very important. Surely I need not take the the materials of which the expedition should be composed; trouble to explain, if the gentleman does not already per- and without such, the enterprise will begin in doubt and ceive how a particular branch of trade may be very im- hazard, and will probably end in disappointment and morportant to a few dealers, in a little town of five or six tification. thousand people; and yet, when viewed in connexion with the general interests of a nation of fifteen millions, sink into comparative insignificance.

Such are

I am not [said Mr. B.] so entirely opposed to the military occupation of the country as to resist it in every form; but I do believe that the provisions of this bill are The gentleman speaks of the transportation of troops not adapted to the end proposed, and cannot possibly acand munitions to the mouth of Columbia, as if it were an complish the design. Can it be that one or two little forts, enterprise of daily occurrence, and easy to be performed. garrisoned by a handful of our ordinary troops, can afford Sir, he is egregiously mistaken; it is an herculean task, protection to our traders throughout that extensive counfull of toil, and danger, and privation; and its successful try; stretching, as it does, from latitude forty-two to fiftyaccomplishment requiring the exertion of great and pe-four, and from the shores of the Pacific to the ridge of the culiar talents. The ordinary materiel of the army is, in Rocky Mountains Sir, it cannot be.

JAN. 2, 1829.]

Supreme Court.

[H. of R.

The bill was twice read, and the further consideration thereof was postponed until the third Monday of January. Mr. WICKLIFFE moved that three thousand copies of the report that accompanied this bill be printed.

Mr. STORRS said he was inclined to doubt the neces

One word, sir, on the subject of extending civil ju- said Supreme Court, shall concur in deciding such part risdiction over the country, and I have done. Several of said constitution, or Legislative act, to be invalid, the gentlemen have dwelt with earnest emphasis upon the ex-same shall not be deemed or holden to be invalid, but tension of the jurisdiction of the Canadian courts, by an shall be deemed and holden to be in full force and effect, act of the British Parliament; and seem to consider that the concurrence of any lesser number of the said justices act as novel and anomalous in the practice of this continent. in an opinion, to the contrary notwithstanding." But, sir, they have overlooked our own statute book. The British Parliament has but followed in the footsteps of the American Congress. The jurisdiction of our courts has been long since extended over that whole country; and for the truth of this assertion, I refer to our own judiciary acts, and especially to the Indian intercourse law of 1802. sity or propriety of printing any number of extra copies I cannot refer at this moment to page and section, for I was of the report. It involved some questions that would unexpectedly drawn into this debate by the remarks of the certainly deserve the serious attention of the House, when gentleman from Virginia, (Mr. FLOYD] without any pre- the bill should come up. A majority of the Judiciary vious design of again addressing the Committee. I have Committee only have agreed to the bill, and the report been a law officer of the Government on the frontier, and, might probably be considered as containing the strength as such, have been called upon to aid the court in the ex- of the argument in favor of it. The views of the minority ercise of the power in question. I have prosecuted indict-were not before the House; and, on a question involving ments for offences committed far beyond the civil limits the organic action of a co-ordinate department of the of the States and territories; and I doubt not, that every Government, it was desirable that public opinion should Representative here from a frontier State can bear witness to the practical exercise of the same jurisdiction. That our civil jurisdiction is extended to that country is beyond dispute; but I will not undertake to say that it is organized in such form, and defined with such precision, as to afford a certain remedy for every instance of wrong. If our laws be defective in this particular, I will join the gentleman in applying an immediate remedy, by investing Mr. WICKLIFFE observed, in reply, that, if there was the frontier courts with all such powers as may be ne-any thing in the argument of the gentleman from New cessary to the protection of our citizens in every part of the York, it went to forbid printing the report at all, because national domain. it would certainly find its way to the public through the The progress of this debate has had, I believe, no other newspapers; but, as the bill contained a provision which, effect than to prove to the members of this House how if adopted, would affect, in a very important manner, the ignorant we all are of the subject-matter of this bill, and operation of our judicial system, and thereby have a serihow unfit we are, at this moment, to act understandingly, ous bearing on the interest of many of the citizens of the and with self satisfaction, in taking any definitive course United States, he considered it very desirable that that that may give direction and tone to the future measures of class of persons who were not in the habit of paying any the Government. Sir, as yet, we have but a glimmering very serious attention to mere matters of newspaper disprospect of the promised land. We see it as through a cussion, should be furnished with an opportunity of hearglass darkly; and I do in my conscience believe, that any ing and considering the reasons which had induced a maaffirmative course that we may now take (beyond a sim-jority of the Judiciary Committee of this House to prople exploration) will be adopted at the manifest hazard of pose a change in this part of the action of the Supreme the interest of the nation, and the safety of the citizen. Court. He could not, therefore, withdraw the motion; Mr. TAYLOR now moved to amend the amendment of but, on the contrary, hoped that it would prevail. Mr. DRAYTON, by striking out all after President of the United States, in the first section, and inserting

not be rashly or prematurely committed. The bill was not assigned for a distant day-and it seemed to him, that, so far as public opinion was to be consulted, now or here. after, on such a question, the House should rather refrain from any course which furnished only one side of the question. He hoped the gentleman from Kentucky [Mr. WICKLIFFE] would not press his motion.

The report having been read at length at the Clerk's table, Mr TAYLOR, of New York, observed that, when "Cause an exploring expedition to be organized and reports of Committees were ordered to be printed, the executed, to consist of not more then eighty persons, in-object usually in view was simply to prepare the members cluding a corps of geographers and topographers, for the of the House to act upon the subjects to which they repurpose of collecting information in regard to the climate, ferred. The only exception which rendered the printing soil, natural productions, civil and political condition, har-proper of a larger number of copies than was requisite for bors, and inhabitants, of the territory of the United States this object, had respect to reports containing a mass of west of the Rocky Mountains."

details or important statements of fact which were of general interest, and were of a kind which made it desirable Before any question was taken on this amendment, on that they should be preserved--such, for example, as motion of Mr. WARD, the Committee rose; when the the annual stated report from the Treasury, containing an House adjourned until Friday next.

FRIDAY, JANUARY 2, 1829.

SUPREME COURT.

exposé of our finances; the message of the President of the United States to both Houses of Congress, giving a general view of the relations of the country. However able the present report might be, the correctness of its views was not so universally admitted as to induce every Mr. P. P. BARBOUR, from the Committee on the Judi-member of the House to desire to present those views to ciary, made a report, accompanied by the following bill: his constituents. He admitted that they were striking, but they were far from being new, and some even of those "Be it enacted &c. That, in any case which now is, members who coincided in the propriety of the measure or hereafter may be, brought before the Supreme Court proposed might possibly think that the report did not preof the United States, by writ of error or otherwise, to sent the most conclusive of the arguments in its behalf. the final judgment or decree, in any suit in the highest Be this as it might, gentlemen might as well move to print court of law, or equity, in any State in which shall be a selection of the speeches on their side of this question, drawn in question the validity of any part of the constitu- taken from the Register of our Debates. Let the report tion of a State, or of any part of an act, passed by the be fully examined and discussed, and, if the House, after Legislature of a State, unless five justices at least, of the such discussion, should, upon the whole, feel disposed to

VOL. V.-20.

H. OF R.]

Supreme Court.

[JAN. 2, 1829.

Mr. BARBOUR continued. He could perceive no

make the suggested change, and the honorable gentleman from Kentucky should then conceive it necessary, in justi- danger from that consideration. The only effect of its fication of the change adopted, to print this report, he for one would have no objection to it; but he thought that the practice of printing the arguments on one side of the question, whenever an important bill was introduced into the House, was one that ought to be discouraged rather than extended; he must therefore be opposed to the motion. Mr. T. then asked for a division of the question; which was agreed to. And it being first put on printing the ordinary number of copies of the report, it passed,

nem con.

The question then recurring on printing an extra number, of three thousand copies,

Mr. WEEMS addressed the House at some length, and moved the printing of six thousand copies."

Mr. BATES, of Massachusetts, said he was opposed to printing any copies of this report for public distribution, unless the bill which accompanied it should pass the House; in which case it might be proper, by way of explanation. But, if the bill should not pass, the public circulation of such a report was calculated only to spread discontent in the public mind, and shake the confidence of the people in their Judiciary.

distribution would be, to awaken public inquiry on a subject of obvious and grave importance. For the bill, he was apprehensive that it might not be definitively acted upon during the present session; but, in the mean while, the report might, even in that case, perhaps, lead to the devising of some other mode of remedying what he conceived an existing evil, and, thereby, lead to give greater contentment to the public mind, in the decision of questions where the sovereignty of a State was involved. In such a result, gentlemen could not but all rejoice. Mr. B. in conclusion, begged leave to remind the House, that it was not he who had moved for the extra printing. That motion he never should have made, nor should he have said a word in its support, but for the remarks which had fallen from others.

Mr. STORRS briefly explained, and disavowed any purpose of wishing to introduce a counter report from the minority of the Committee. That practice had been unknown till the year 1818, and it was one which he entirely disapproved of.

Mr. WICKLIFFE rose for the purpose of stating that the printing of three thousand extra copies would cost the public the enormous sum of eighty dollars.

Mr. BARBOUR said, that it had not been his intention to trouble the House with one word on this occasion, nor Mr. WEEMS said he should not have again troubled should he have done so, but for remarks thrown out on the House, but for the remarks that had fallen from the one side and on the other of the House, which demanded a member from Massachusetts, "that, unless the bill which reply. He had purposely forborne, lest the House might accompanied the report should pass both Houses, the pub possibly suppose that he was actuated by some personal lic circulation of it was calculated only to spread discontent desire to give publicity to this report, which, however, at- and shake the confidence of the people in their Judiciary." tempted to present no more than an outline of the argu- Although the honorable member had, by the courtesy of ments in favor of the bill; but when he was told, upon his the gentleman from Virginia, [Mr. BARBOUR] offered an right hand, that the report was calculated to shake the explanation, he felt himself not at all relieved thereby, confidence of the people, and, on the left hand, that it as it was not the report, but the result arising from circuought not to be circulated until the measure it advocated lating it, by publishing three thousand copies, as called had been finally adopted, he was constrained to say that for by the gentleman from Kentucky, [Mr. WICKLIFFE the gentleman had taken ground which was not tenable. that was to be so much dreaded. If so, he must naturally When he consented, in Committee, to the adoption of this infer that he [Mr. W.] was himself to bear a double report, he was actuated by no desire to shake the confi-share of that condemnation, as he had asked the House to dence of the people in their Judiciary, but, on the contra- have printed double the number, and sent out to the ry, as a member of that Committee, and as a member of people. Mr. W. said that it was somewhat astonishing to the community at large, he had been anxious to produce, him, that gentlemen's fears should continue to exist to in the minds of the people, an increased degree of con- such an alarming extent, on every attempt to consult the tentment, and of confidence in the decisions of that dread people of these United States, especially after the very tribunal which pronounced upon their interests in the last clear and absolute demonstration they had lately given of resort. What! [cried Mr. B.] shall it be said that we are the entire sufficiency of their wisdom and virtue for all attempting to shake the confidence of the People in their purposes of self-government, however strong and powerJudiciary, because we seekfully assailed. Again, that gentleman had also asked him [Here Mr. BATES interposed and explained. He was [Mr. W.] "for a reason why such a number should be far from saying that such was the intention of the gentle-printed and sent out," which he would, in a very few man or the Committee. He had only expressed an appre-words, endeavor to answer. It no doubt will be recollecthension that such would be the result, if the report were ed that, at the last session of Congress, when a report was circulated, and the bill not passed.] made to the House by the then honorable Chairman of the Mr. BARBOUR resumed. If the report goes forth to Committee on Military Affairs, on the documents relating the people, it will be received by them for just what it is to the six Tennessee militiamen who had been executed worth. They will give it no more attention than what during the late war for the most outrageous act of mutiny they consider it entitled to; and if it produces any con- and desertion, that he had at the time asked for the printviction on their minds, that conviction will proceed no ing of six thousand copies, to be distributed through the farther than it has reason to justify it. If there is no nation; but, at the request of the Chairman, he had been weight in the argument, it will have no effect. As to induced to withdraw his motion, in expectation of select what was said by the gentleman from New York, it would ing another opportunity for doing so, after sufficient forbid the printing of reports at all. They are always time had been allowed to those disposed to review the printed, if at all, before they are acted upon. whole, and to protest against, or impugn the same if so

[Mr. TAYLOR here explained, and reminded the determined on as being necessary; and although the regentleman from Virginia that he had expressed no objec-port was laid on the table three months and a half, or tion whatever to the printing of the ordinary number of more, before Congress adjourned, nothing like an attempt copies of this report. He was perfectly willing that it should was made to impugn or protest against its correctness, albe printed as other reports were, and should find its way to the public as other reports on important subjects dothrough the newspapers. But the printing of a large additional number of any report gives to such report, in some measure, the sanction of the House.]

though it was well known that every attempt during the session to investigate was most cheerfully agreed to, as proved in the very first onset of the inquiry, by a vote of about three or four in favor of investigation, to one against it; consequently, he and his friends considered it unne