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Mr. DICKINSON. So the report that you exhibited here, rather voluminous, isn't what you found out on this particular trip?

The WITNESS. Not solely, no, sir.

Mr. DICKINSON. You didn't find out much on an overnight trip, did you?

The Witness. I was down there 1 day and found out a whole lot in 1 day. In fact, we had a press conference on what I found out in 1 day. Mr. Powell flew down and had a press conference on it.

Mr. DICKINSON. You were there overnight and you went on to Bimini and spent 3 or 4 days and came on back directly with your wife?

The WITNESS. Yes, sir.

Mr. DICKINSON. And you didn't stay with Chairman Powell at his home?

The WITNESS. No, sir.
Mr. DICKINSON. Did you visit in his home while there?
The WITNESS. Oh, yes.

Mr. DICKINSON. Well, now, while you were there, on Bimini, did you do anything official so far as the committee is concerned?

The WITNESS. Not in Bimini.
Mr. DICKINSON. That is what I mean.
The WITNESS. No.
Mr. DICKINSON. Were you in the home much?
The WITNESS. Not too much, no. Not too much, really.
Mr. DICKINSON. This was all-
The WITNESS. Very little. It was very little, in fact.

Mr. Dickinson. Who was there when you were in Mr. Powell's house?

The WITNESS. In the house?
Mr. DICKINSON. In his home, yes.
Mr. Hays. Well, just a minute.

Now, since there is no Government funds involved in this, do you think we should pursue this any further?

Mr. DICKINSON. Well, I know of two employees that were in the home. I don't know what they were doing there.

Mr. Hays. All right.
The WITNESS. Yes. In the home?
Mr. DICKINSON. In the home.

The Witness. I don't know of any employees that were in the home.

Mr. DICKINSON. Do you know of a Sylvia Givens?
The WITNESS. Yes.
Mr. DICKINSON. Did she stay in his home?
The WITNESS. I don't think she did; no.
Mr. DICKINSON. She so testified this morning.
The WITNESS. I don't know whether she did or not.
Mr. DICKINSON. I am not prying

The WITNESS. I understand. I want to explain why. I stayed on North Bimini. He lives on South Bimini. So who was there I don't know. Mr. Powell is a fisherman. I am not. I don't like to go fishing So when I was down there I tried to stay away and be by myself, or be with my wife. Never went out on the boat, never went fishing

You see

Mr. DICKINSON. You really had very little contact with him after. you were on Bimini?

The WITNESS. Very little.

Mr. DICKINSON. Who was in his home, whether they were on committee business, you have no knowledge of?

The WITNESS. No; I have no knowledge of who was there.
Mr. DICKINSON. Now, how did you get to Bimini from Miami?
The Witness. Flew on Chalk's Flying Service.
Mr. DICKINSON. Chalk's Flying Service?
The WITNESS. Yes, sir.
Mr. DICKINSON. Is that the service that Mr. Powell usually uses?
The WITNESS. Yes.

Mr. Dickinson. Is that a regularly scheduled service or is it a ferry service?

The WITNESS. Yes, it goes twice a day. He uses that one or uses Mackey Airlines. You can go by boat when they operate, but they usually fly. Mr. DICKINSON.

How was that paid for? The WITNESS. What was paid for?

Mr. DICKINSON. Your transportation by Chalk's Flying Service from Miami to Bimini; how was that paid for?

The WITNESS. Probably by check or cash.
Mr. Dickinson. Did you pay for it?
The WITNESS. Yes, sir.
Mr. DICKINSON. You don't recall how you paid for it?

The WITNESS. I might have paid cash or check, I am not sure how
I paid.
Mr. DICKINSON. It wasn't on a credit card?
The WITNESS. Oh, no.
Mr. DICKINSON. It wasn't on a committee credit card?
The WITNESS. No.

Mr. DICKINSON. Have you ever used the committee credit card, or has the committee credit card ever been used for Chalk's Flying Service to Bimini?

The WITNESS. No; I am almost sure.
Mr. DICKINSON. Does he honor credit cards?

The WITNESS. Yes, he honors credit cards. He honors even Diners', things like that.

Mr. Hays. But he doesn't honor an airline credit card?
The WITNESS. I don't know if he does.

Mr. Hays. Normally these charter flights don't, because they are not members of the association.

The WITNESS. I don't know whether they do or not. This I couldn't tell you.

Mr. Hays. He might honor a Diner card or something like that, but no Diner card is issued to members of the committee, to be paid for out of Government funds.

The WITNESS. Not that I know of. I just don't know.

Mr. DICKINSON. So you went down independently and left independently?

The WITNESS. Yes, sir.
Mr. DICKINSON. You didn't travel in the party?
The WITNESS. Oh, no. He had gone-he left before I did.

72-404 0467—-10

Mr. DICKINSON. Left where?
The WITNESS. Washington.
Mr. DICKINSON. Washington for Bimini?
The WITNESS. Washington to go to Miami-Bimini; yes, sir.
Mr. DICKINSON. All right. I have no further questions.
Mr. O'CONNOR. May I ask a question?
The WITNESS. Yes.

By Mr. O'CONNOR: Q. Did you have any conversations with Miss Givens when she was hired by the committee?

A. No, I didn't. I remember I saw her in the outer room and so forth.

Q. Did you have any conversations with her when you gave her the ticket to go to New York?

A. I didn't give her a ticket.
Q. You didn't?
A. No, sir.
Q. Who did?
A. I guess the chairman did, I guess.
Q. But you purchased the ticket for her?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you delivered them to the chairman?
À. The chairman; yes, sir.

Q. During the course of the interrogation here today has your memory been refreshed on the block of 20 tickets you purchased at that one time?

A. Well, I just remember when I bought the tickets and put them on his desk, that is all. It was a large number. I don't know if it was 20.

Q. Would it have been in March of this year?
A. Well, I know it was the early part of the year.

Q. Was it at the time of his testimonial dinner on March 27 in New York?

A. This I don't really remember, Mr. O'Connor. I know it was the early part of the year. I thought it was January or February.

Q. Did you go up for that testimonial dinner? A. No, there was no testimonial dinner. Q. There was one at one of the hotels sometime in March this year? A. No, no, there wasn't. Testimonial dinner? No. Q. You don't recall any? A. No; there was no testimonial dinner. Mr. DICKINSON. One further question now and I am finished, Mr. Stone.

The WITNESS. Yes.

Mr. DICKINSON. You went to Miami, you stayed overnight, and you stayed on Government business; right?

The WITNESS. Yes, sir.
Mr. DICKINSON. You didn't file a claim for per diem?
The WITNESS. No, sir.

Mr. DICKINSON. Were you staying in a private home or did you check in stay in some commercial place? Did you stay in your own name?

The WITNESS. Stayed in a private home.
Mr. DICKINSON. Stayed in a private home?
The WITNESS. Yes, sir.
Mr. DICKINSON. And for that reason you didn't charge per diem?
The WITNESS. Yes, sir.

Mr. O'CONNOR. Would you give us the name of the party you stayed with?

The WITNESS. Henry Arrington, an attorney. A-r-r-i-n-g-t-o-n. I stay with him quite a bit when I am there.

By Mr. O'CONNOR:
Q. Did I ask you if you knew Lloyd Mitchell?
A. No; you didn't.
Q. Do you know Lloyd Mitchell?
A. I know him.
Q. Who is he and what does he do?

A. Gee, he lives in New York City, he has a private detective age and he is a friend of the Chairman's.

Q. Does he perform services for the committee?

A. He had done some investigating—I have been told he has done investigative work. I wasn't in touch with Henry like that, but

Q: Do you know how he is reimbursed by the committee for his services?

A. This I don't know. I don't know how he is reimbursed.
Q. He is reimbursed, though, in some way?
A. Pardon?
Q. He is reimbursed, though, in some way?
A. I don't know, sir, if he is or not. I just know him.
Q. How long have you known Mr. Mitchell?
A. Since I went to work for the chairman.
Q. That would be early last year?
A. Yes, sir.
Mr. O'CONNOR. I have no further questions.

Mr. Hays. Mr. Stone, did anybody at any time ask you any intimate details concerning the personal life of the chairman?

The WITNESS. Congressman Dickinson asked me about who stayed in his home.

Mr. HAYS. Other than that.
The WITNESS. Not me personally.

By Mr. O'CONNOR: Q. I didn't ask you anything when you and I talked 3 or 4 days ago?

A. No, you didn't; no. Some of the staff members have complained about this.

Mr. Hays. This letter from the chairman says, "The conclusion is inescapable that committee staff members are being made scapegoats.

Do you feel this committee is making you a scapegoat?

The WITNESS. I don't know until I read your report. I don't think so right now.

Mr. Hays. Does anything up to now indicate that you are?
The WITNESS. Not right now; no.

Mr. Hays. Would you say—and I am not trying to boobytrap you or anything—I feel like I have leaned over backward to be fair.

The WITNESS. I think you are fair; yes.
Mr. Hays. If anybody has been made a scapegoat, would you

kind of think when you were ordered to buy tickets for somebody that didn't use them, that you kind of maybe were made a scapegoat then?

The WITNESS. Yes; but is that illegal?

Mr. Hays. Well, I don't know whether it is illegal or not, but it is sure unethical around here.

The WITNESS. Yes, yes. Well, I wasn't happy about it, but

Mr. Hays. The point I am trying to make is, if you have been made a scapegoat, I just can't feel like I or any member of this committee did it.

The WITNESS. No.

Mr. Hays. But the letter indicates that we did. That is the chairman's opinion, I am sure.

The WITNESS. Yes.
Mr. Hays. But then I disagree with it.

The WITNESS. I don't think the committee has made me a scapegoat at this point.

Mr. DICKINSON. For the record. You said I had mentioned that; you mean right here and now?

The WITNESS. Yes.
Mr. DICKINSON. I have never talked to you prior to this hearing?
The WITNESS. No, sir.

Mr. DICKINSON. As far as you know, I have never talked to anybody on your staff, have I?

The WITNESS. As far as I know; yes, sir.

Mr. Hays. Well, I think the purpose of Mr. Dickinson's question was to find out—we have had testimony that Miss Givens was there and she was on the staff payroll and we were curious as to whether she was doing any kind of work for the committee. That was the only,

The WITNESS. She was there but I don't know what she was doing, though. I didn't see her that much.

Mr. Hays. I want you to understand there was no question about any personal contacts she may or may not have had with the chair

We are not interested in that. The WITNESS. She could have, I didn't see her very much. In fact, I saw very little of the chairman. As I say, there are two islands. To get there you have to go by boat and I am not a fisherman.

Mr. O'CONNOR. Any questions?

Mr. JONES. Those žo tickets you bought at one time, were they all for the same destination?

The WITNESS. I think they were a variety, sir. I think there was like Washington to Miami and New York to Miami and it was different, it was a combination of-it wasn't the same round-trip ticket. I didn't buy 20 tickets between Washington and Miami or Washington-it was different combinations, you might say.

Mr. JONES. But you know that 20 were bought at one time?
The WITNESS. Yes. I don't-
Mr. Jones. And it was bought in the names of four different people?

The WITNESS. Yes. And I don't know for sure it was 20. I just know it was a rather large number. It was more than 8 or 9 or 10. I remember it was

man.

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