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Washington, D.C. The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:10 a.m., in room 235, Old Senate Office Building, Senator Clinton P. Anderson (chairman) presiding

Present: Senators Anderson, Symington, Young, and Smith.

Also present: Frank C. Di Luzio, staff director; Col. Harry N. Tufts, facilities assistant; William J. Deachman and Dr. Glen P. Wilson, professional staff members; and Eilene Galloway, special consultant.


The CHAIRMAN. The National Aeronautics and Space Administration has the clear mandate, under the Space Act of 1958, to preserve the role of the United States as a leader in the development and exploration of space for peaceful purposes. In the years since the Space Act was passed, we have defined and expanded the scope of NASA's programs by annual authorizations and appropriations. We have a number of national space goals, requested by the President and approved by the Congress, one of which is the manned lunar landing program within this decade.

Some people would have us believe that in order for NASA to fulfill its commitments, it will consume a disproportionate percentage of the available scientific and technical talent. I believe the record will show that this is just not so. For example, the Bureau of Labor Statistics estimates that only about 6 percent of the Nation's 1,700,000 scientists and engineers in 1970 will be engaged in space programs and only about 1 percent will actually be employed by NASA. Nevertheless, it is true that NASA is dipping into this pool of available talent and it is clear that the supply must be replenished and expanded to meet our national needs.

To meet these needs, it is going to be necessary to expand and strengthen our entire educational system, particularly at the graduate level.

Within the last 2 years NASA has initiated a series of grant programs to educational institutions for facilities, training, and research. Recent debate has shown that there is increasing concern within the Congress about various aspects of these programs.

What we wish to accomplish by these hearings is to obtain more information about these educational programs of NASA. We want


to find out in greater detail why NASA is engaged in these educational programs and how these programs are related to NASA's mission. We want to find out what criteria NASA uses for determining the various elements of the programs and the reasons why these criteria were chosen.

Finally, we want to get some idea of the total scope of Federal activities in these educational areas and the relationship of NASA's programs to the overall effort.

I want to ask my colleague, Senator Smith, if she has anything to add at this point this morning.


Senator Smith. Yes, Mr. Chairman. I have a short statement.

I would like to say before we hear the first witness that I am pleased that these hearings have been scheduled at this time. The Federal Government's financial assistance to individuals and universities in promoting higher education is a broad and important subject. I realize that the scope of our committee authority in the overall educational field is limited and I further recognize that these hearings will be confined primarily to NASA's impact on the university community. Nevertheless, I believe it is essential to relate NASA's program to the educational programs of other departments and agencies of the Federal Government. In doing so, these hearings will be more meaningful, not only to the committee but to those who are concerned with the national problem of meeting the continuing manpower requirements in the field of advanced education.

In preparation for these hearings, I have done some reading in an effort to determine the extent of Federal involvement in promoting and assisting higher education. Helpful in this research has been the publishing within the past several months of a very interesting report by the House Committee on Education and Labor. This report is entitled “The Federal Government and Education" and is referred to as House Document No. 159. On the first page of this report it states that “42 departments, agencies, and bureaus of the Government are involved in education to some degree." The large number of Federal agencies concerned with the problem is perhaps understandable after reading the comprehensive reports of the President's Science Advisory Committee on Manpower Needs. I am particularly pleased, therefore, that the Chairman of that Committee will be our first witness. It would seem to me that if any single person in the Government can give us a bird's eye picture of the whole national educational requirements and NASA's place in this scheme of things it is Dr. Jerome B. Wiesner. I join with the chairman in welcoming him at this time.

The CHAIRMAX. Thank you, Mrs. Smith. You see that she does her homework.

Senator Symington has been a tower of strength to us in these recent discussions on NASA's appropriation.

Does the Senator have any remarks?



Senator SYMINGTON. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate what you say. If the chairman's figures are correct—and I am certain that they are, else he would not have made them because he is also someone who does his homework—then the figure presented to the Senate of 25 percent of the scientists and engineers of the country being or to be involved in the space program was inaccurate. That was one of the premises by those who were successful in reducing the program.

The CHAIRMAN. I want to say that the statement was based on a New York Times article quoting a professor in St. Louis. Unless you saw what was in the original Times story and see the original thesis on which the statement was made, and then find out what the man himself originally said and what he said about it, it would be difficult to make a judgment. As I remember it, he said if the present pace continued of acquiring all these men up to 1970, then the problem would be there. But as I understand it, we are moving out of the early engineering stage to the hardware stage, where not everything is design work and engineering work, I think if the whole argument had been available, it would have made quite a difference.

Senator SYMINGTON. The professor he refers to is a biologist, and a very fine biologist. Nevertheless, I do not think that qualifies him to be a final authority on this matter.

The CHAIRMAN. I want to say to the Senator from Missouri that I am on the Interior Committee and I am one of the few nonlawyers on the committee, and I always speak with greater freedom on legal matters than any of the lawyers.

Senator YOUNG. And greater accuracy.

The CHAIRMAN. We have as our first witness this morning Dr. Jerome B. Wiesner, Director of the Office of Science and Technology who will give us an overall view of Federal activities in this area. Dr. Wiesner will be followed by Mr. James Webb, Administrator, Dr. Homer Newell, Associate Administrator, Office of Space Science and Applications, and Dr. Thomas L. K. Smull, Director of the Office of Grants and Research Contracts, all of NASA. We plan to continue the hearings tomorrow at 10 a.m., since it is probable that we will not finish today.

Also, I should like to state that at the conclusion of these 2 days of hearings, we will wish to study the testimony carefully in order to determine whether or not it will be necessary to hold additional hearings in this area, perhaps from some of the participating institutions.

Thank you for being here, Doctor. Many of us sincerely regret your departure from the Washington scene. If this is to be your last official appearance, we are certainly happy you have come before the committee.

(The biographies are as follows:)


Dr. Jerome B. Wiesner was born in Detroit, Mich., on May 30, 1915. He is married to the former Laya L. Wainger, and they have four children.

Dr. Wiesner received his B.S. in electrical engineering from the University of Michigan at Ann Arbor in 1937; the same university awarded him his M.S. in 1938 and his Ph. D. in 1950.

Upon graduation from the university, Dr. Wiesner joined the staff there and remained in Ann Arbor for 2 years. In 1940, he was appointed Chief Engineer of the Library of Congress in Washington, D.C., and while there he developed the recording and acoustical laboratory and did some record preservation work. In 1942, he joined the staff of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology at Cambridge, Mass., where he remained until 1945, when he went to work at Los Alamos, N. Mex., with the University of California's Los Alamos laboratory.

In 1946, Dr. Wiesner returned to MIT and in 1952, he became director of its research laboratory of electronics. He was also a professor of electrical engineering and in 1958 became chairman of the department of electrical engineering.

In January 1961, President Kennedy appointed Dr. Wiesner his Special Assistant for Science and Technology. In 1962, the Office of Science and Technology was set up in the Executive Office of the President pursuant to the provisions of Reorganization Plan No. 2, and the President appointed Dr. Wiesner Director of the Office on July 20, 1962. Dr. Wiesner also serves as Chairman of the President's Science Advisory Committee and the Federal Council for Science and Technology.

Dr. Wiesner has done extensive research on technology related to national defense, including work on scatter communications techniques, radar problems and antiballistic missile systems. While at MIT he assisted in the establishment of the Lincoln Laboratory which worked on the development of the radar, computer and communications systems for the continental air defense system. During his association with the Lincoln Laboratory he pioneered the scatter communications applications to military communications which made possible the distant early warning line.

Prior to coming to Washington in 1961, Dr. Wiesner served on numerous advisory committees to the Department of Defense and the White House on scientific and technical matters. Dr. Wiesner was a member of the von Neumann Committee which was responsible for the initiation of the U.S. ballistic missile program in 1954. In 1958, he was Staff Director of the U.S. Delegation to the Conference of Experts on Methods of Preventing Surprise Attack which met in Geneva, Switzerland. In recent years he has participated in numerous national and international informal conferences on the subject of disarmament.

Dr. Wiesner is a member of various technical societies such as the Institute of Radio Engineers (Fellow), the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, the National Academy of Sciences, the Acoustical Society of America, etc. He has published numerous technical papers in the Journal of Applied Physics, the Scientific American, Proceedirgs of the Institute of Radio Engineers, Science, the Physical Review, etc.

In 1946, Dr. Wiesner was given a Presidential award for his technical contributions to the war effort. He has been awarded honorary degrees from the Polytechnic Institute of Brooklyn, the Lowell Technological Institute and the University of Michigan. In 1961, the electronic Industries Association awarded Dr. Wiesner its Medal of Honor, and in 1963, the Government of Pakistan conferred on him the “Star of Pakistan.”



Born Baltimore, Md., January 24, 1920; married 1941; three children.

B.E., the Johns Hopkins University, 1940; doctor of engineering, 1950. M.S., Harvard University, 1947.

Ship structure designer, Boston Naval Shipyard, Mass., 1941-42.

Supervisor, turret test section, David Taylor Model Basin, U.S. Navy Department, 1942–44.

Ensign, USNR, 1944-45.

Superintendent, structural dynamics section, David Taylor Model Basin, 1945–48.

Supervisor, submarine structural branch, David Taylor Model Basin, 1948–50. Head, structures division, David Taylor Model Basin, 1950–56.

Chairman, Department of Engineering Mechanics, Southwest Research Institute, 1956–59.

Senior specialist of science and technology, Legislative Reference Service, Library of Congress, 1959–61.

Technical assistant to the President's Science Adviser, the White House; executive secretary, Federal Council for Science and Technology, 1961-62.

Technical assistant to the Director, Office of Science and Technology and executive secretary, Federal Council for Science and Technology, from 1962.

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