meetings at all sorts of times. Those are the sort of things I object to. It is not the individuals; it is the structure.

Mr. LELAND. You were head of one of the biggest corporations in the country and obviously have had some valuable experience in running that company very successfully. In fact, it has been stated that that was the reason you were brought on in the first place. With your disagreement with the structure itself, it seems to me that the people on the other side of the issue who have brought you in should accept some of your wisdom. Has that brought some real frustration on your part, the fact they do disagree?

Mr. CASEY. In all honesty, I was not aware of the complexity of the situation when I accepted. Nobody really knows what is going on inside another organization until he is on the payroll, and I found things were not as I had imagined. But I have changed jobs many times and I have always been surprised.

Mr. LELAND. But you have been more successful than the

reverse.

Mr. CASEY. I like to think so.

Mr. LELAND. Now that you have had some experience with the way our postal system runs, what is your opinion on the system and do you have any suggestions on improvements we might be able to make?

Mr. CASEY. Well, Mr. Chairman, what I have done is I have tried to translate those observations and newly formed goals right into the organization. We are trying to bring the capacities and responsibilities and the decisionmaking process down to where it could be effective in the least span of time. As I explained earlier, it took many, many years to get a new post office built and so forth. Now in these 80 organizations they will be quite complete. They will have the staff capacities. They have the equal employment function. They have the labor negotiation function and that is what I found lacking when I came.

Mr. LELAND. One last question from me, and then I will yield to my colleagues. With the exception of Mr. Garrity, your review has been conducted entirely by career Postal Service personnel. Do you think this approach can produce an objective and unbiased review?

Mr. CASEY. I think it can, if it gets the kind of direction that we have given to it. It has provided us with experienced, dedicated, long-tenured staff that really know how the Postal Service works. This is preventing us from making all sort of organizational mistakes you might make if you did not have that knowledge. I do not think we could have done it without them. I do not think there is any question about that. They are fine, competent, capable people. Mr. LELAND. Very good.

Do any of my colleagues have any other questions they would like to ask?

Mr. Chairman.

Mr. MCCLOSKEY. I think we have a vote up. As we approach that vote, Mr. Casey, I would just like you to state, with regard to the reorganization and as to the 80 divisional offices, the approximate number of hours we would know the information before it is released to the general public just in case we have some input or suggestion or anything.

Mr. CASEY. That is very, very difficult, Mr. Congressman. How can I let you know earlier than I let some other people know? We have the unions, we have the associations, we have the Senate. Everybody wants to know. I would be very happy to discuss the structure and the policies that evolve; but when it comes to naming the people's names and naming the cities, I would have to reflect. I am not saying no, but I am not saying yes.

Mr. MCCLOSKEY. Maybe we can talk again, but I would just respectfully suggest that it sort of puts this committee on the spot. I think Mr. Ford has much stronger opinions on this than I and has been more eloquent than I could ever be. We had problems with the appointment of the Postmaster General, and we were notified about it in the press. Now we are going to have a situation possibly, Mr. Casey, where we have the elimination of numerous offices involving hundreds, if not thousands, of people. In effect, if we know about it at the same time as the public I just think it puts us in a very problematic position. I am not arguing. I would like to know what the standards of courtesy and communication are. It is something you got to work on maybe.

Mr. CASEY. We are not eliminating any jobs. Nobody is going to be summarily dropped from the payroll. If you were doing this in normal corporate life, you would not even call in the Board of Directors and ask them unless it was some very high character that the Board had the selection and pay process on. I would like to find a solution. I am not objecting.

Mr. MCCLOSKEY. I would respectfully suggest people like Mr. Ford in the House and Mr. Stevens in the Senate professionally are on a different plane than the overall public as far as having some access to pertinent information before us.

Mr. CASEY. I really agree. I am trying to think of a way to do it, and I will talk to Congressman Ford and I will talk to Senator Stevens.

Mr. MCCLOSKEY. I think we have a vote, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. LELAND. I would like to join with the chairman of the Personnel and Modernization Subcommittee by saying, too, Mr. Postmaster General, that this committee, the Post Office and Civil Service Committee, does indeed have oversight over the Postal Service; and while the Postal Service is a quasi-Federal agency, we still have a lot of responsibility for the oversight of what goes on in the Postal Service. All the cooperation that can be rendered by not only the Postmaster General and his organization but also the Board of Governors is most desirable; and we hope that we can enhance our relationship and not come to loggerheads and polarize ourselves so that we sit in a situation like this and become combatants as opposed to partners in trying to make the Postal Service serve the interests of the American people much, much better.

Mr. CASEY. I am just a little confused as to how to bring it about. I am not objecting. I am glad it came up now so I can give it some thought.

Mr. LELAND. What we need to do—and I am sure the chairman of this committee is most willing to do so, as well as my colleagues on the committee-is to sit down and discuss the strategy process with you. That is not to say you have to give any trade secrets

away before you are willing. But if we can, discuss how we formulate or form a working relationship.

Mr. CASEY. I will be glad to. Do I do this before I speak to the Governors or after I speak to the Governors?

Mr. LELAND. We prefer you do it before you speak to the Gover

nors.

Mr. CASEY. I knew you did. [Laughter.]

Mr. LELAND. Mr. Postmaster General, thank you very much. We are going to go to a vote. We have other questions for you which we will submit in writing and ask that you respond. Thank you very much.

Mr. CASEY. Thank you very much, gentlemen. It has been a pleasure.

[Whereupon, at 3:15 p.m., the subcommittees adjourned.]

[The following response to written questions was received for the record:]

This is in response to your March 27 letter transmitting for my review and editing a transcript of the March 18 joint hearing of the Subcommittee on Postal Operations and Services and the Subcommittee on Postal Personnel and Modernization, on reorganization of the U.S. Postal Service. Included with your letter were several additional questions for the record of the March 18 hearing. Enclosed is the edited transcript and my responses to the additional questions transmitted.

If you need any further information, please contact my office or William T. Johnstone, Assistant Postmaster General, Government Relations Department, on 268-3731.

Sincerely,

Allent

Albert V.

Enclosure

MCCLOSKEY QUESTIONS FOR MR. CASEY AND MR. GARRITY

Field Structure

Mr. Casey, on February 20th, you directed a memorandum to Postal Career Executive Service (PCES) Executives regarding your analysis and preliminary conclusions of the management structure. In addition, Deputy Postmaster Jackie Strange issued a follow-up memorandum on March 6th to Headquarters Employees.

1.

What district functions will be merged in order to create 80 key Management Sectional Centers (MSCs)?

ANSWER:

All functions previously performed at the Districts will be merged into, and now will be the responsibility of, the 74 newly created Divisions (Key Management Sectional Centers).

2. What are the longer-term operational opportunities upon which the regions will focus?

ANSWER: The responsibilities of the Regional Offices will be refocused. They will concentrate on the continuing improvement of service, enhancing productivity, reducing costs and strengthening financial performance, and developing an effective group of Division managers.