REQUIREMENT OF STATEMENT OF OWNERS AND DIRECTORS OF
PROSPECTIVE LICENSEES

Mr. DIRKSEN. When an application is made for a license, what do you require of a prospective broadcasting station by way of a statement of the personnel and of the interested parties? I assume that you get a statement of all of the stockholders and directors of the company, and anybody else in connection with the company?

Mr. CRAVEN. Yes. I think that at the present time we have discovered that our application blanks are not as complete as they should be, and we are in the process of getting out some blanks so that we can get some more positive information at the beginning.

Mr. DIRKSEN. Is it required that at the end of every 6 months' period they shall bring that data up to date, so that there is pending with the Commission at all times

Mr. CRAVEN (interposing). The Commission is supposed

Mr. DIRKSEN. Let me finish-so that there is pending with the Commission at all times a statement showing the name of every person who has a financial or other interest in that particular broadcasting company, and the extent of the interest?

Mr. CRAVEN. We have an order in the Commission which requires just that, and we are supposed to keep ourselves informed of every major change of stock ownership in the station which would affect the control.

CLASSIFICATION OF STATIONS

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Am I correctly advised that you have recommended a division of six classifications of stations instead of four, as now?

Mr. CRAVEN. Yes; my department did. Since we have gone to Habana, it has gotten back to three, with a certain subclassification bringing it up to five real classifications instead of six.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Has the Commission approved that change as yet?

Mr. CRAVEN. It has not.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Now there is a report pending on the economic and social effects of that. When do you expect to issue that?

Mr. CRAVEN. I was prevented, by reason of international affairs, from having that report laid before the Commission and made public, because it dealt a good deal with international effects, and I did not want to have my hands tied at Habana.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Do you mean that the report has been made, but that it has not been made public?

Mr. CRAVEN. I have not submitted it to the Commission formally. Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. It is completed?

Mr. CRAVEN. It is completed; yes.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. When will that be submitted?

Mr. CRAVEN. I would like to submit it very soon and make it public, because I feel that whatever is in it is always subject to consideration by others, and we may get enlightenment on it. consider it final by any means.

CLASSIFICATION OF STATIONS UNDER INTERNATIONAL

HABANA, CUBA

AGREEMENTS

MADE AT

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Speaking of Habana, was that classification in fact included in the terms of the agreement reached?

Mr. CRAVEN. For international notification purposes only, there is a classification of clear-channel stations into two types, and then two regional classes of stations and one local class.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Does that make five classifications?

Mr. CRAVEN. That makes five classifications, but they are really clear, regional, and local stations.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. And they were embodied in this agreement down there?

Mr. CRAVEN. Yes.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. With the approval of the Commission?

Mr. CRAVEN. It is going to be with the approval of the Senate, if approved at all, because it will be subject to ratification.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. The Commission has not acted on it?

Mr. CRAVEN. No; but it was an international agreement reached as the result of negotiations with other nations.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. How many of those negotiations have been carried on-few or many?

Mr. CRAVEN. We have attempted to secure agreements with Canada, Mexico, and Cuba on several occasions before. One in particular in which we failed was in Mexico City in 1933.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. How many have been concluded?

Mr. CRAVEN. This is the only one that has been concluded, except side arrangement with Canada in 1932.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Have the terms of that agreement and of the Canadian agreement been made public?

Mr. CRAVEN. Yes; the Canadian agreement, in 1932, is public. Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. How about the Cuban? How about this Habana agreement?

Mr. CRAVEN. That will be made public. I just got back on it. It s in the form of a treaty to be submitted to the Senate, because it nvolves major policies.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Is there any objection, but not for the record, furnishing a copy of that at this time?

Mr. CRAVEN. I have no objection and I would be very glad to let ou have a copy. My only difficulty is that we left the conference own there prior to all of the printing of it, and we brought a master opy, which we are in the process of mimeographing.

REPRESENTATION OF THE COMMISSION AT HABANA

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Who represented the Commission down there, esides yourself?

Mr. CRAVEN. The United States was represented by myself as hairman of the delegation; by Mr. Norweb, of the State Department; nd the rest were technical advisers, consisting of Mr. Jett, of the ommission; Mr. Gross, of the Commission; Mr. Ring, of the Comission; Mr. Ottoman, of the State Department; Mr. Simpson, of e Department of Commerce; and there was one other-Colonel rawford, of the Signal Corps of the Army.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Who appoints that Commission, and under what authority?

Mr. CRAVEN. The President appoints the delegation upon the recommendation of the Department of State, and presumably under the authority the President has to appoint people who attend international conferences. I do not know what the authority is.

CONFERENCE AT CAIRO IN FEBRUARY 1938

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. There is to be a conference at Cairo in the near future?

Mr. CRAVEN. Before I answer that question, Congress appropriated money for the Habana conference, but I do not know the bill number. There is to be a conference at Cairo on February 1, 1938. Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. How long will that probably last?

Mr. CRAVEN. I am afraid that it is going to last about 3 months. Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Who is going to represent the Commission at that conference?

Mr. CRAVEN. That has not been decided. The President, I believe, will announce that. I do not know who it will be.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Has the Commission made any recommendation?

Mr. CRAVEN. It has made recommendation with respect to the technical advisers. I am not familiar with the details at this moment, because I just got back to the office this morning.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. I mean as to the head or heads of the Commission.

Mr. CRAVEN. I only know that by hearsay. I understand that Senator White is going to head that delegation. I am not sure of that, and I do not want to be placed on record as telling you anything on hearsay.

NEED FOR INVESTIGATION WITH VIEW TO REALLOCATION OF FACILITIES IN THIS COUNTRY

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. You spoke before, in response to some question, about the advisability of looking into things thoroughly, with a view to the reallocation of facilities in this country.

Mr. CRAVEN. What I mean by that is this: We have had several years of the operation of broadcasting stations in the country, and have gone through one of the most serious depressions in our history, in which it has been difficult to understand some of the applications of economics. I feel that we ought to look into what has occurred, and try to evaluate it the best we can, and take steps to see that in the future, as we go along, by an evolutionary process, that radio broadcasting is truly applied in our country in accordance with the best public policy that may be deemed necessary.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. You would feel, therefore, that such a sweeping investigation as has been suggested in both Houses of Congress, into the whole boradcasting field, would be a desirable thing?

Mr. CRAVEN. Frankly, I do not. I think that the Commission should be given an opportunity to do a job, and then to report to Congress.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. You believe that the Commission can cover the whole problem thoroughly, in the matter of monopoly to private ownership, trafficking in licenses, and all the

Mr. CRAVEN (interposing). While I think that the Congress is very efficient, I believe there should be, first, a complete study on the part of the Commission, so that the Congress will be without the necessity of going through a long-drawn-out investigation to secure a complete study of all of the factual elements, in the matter, including all of the economic relationships. This study has not yet been made by the Commission but I think is necessary for it to do so.

Mr. WOODRUM. You have no funds provided to make any such survey as that.

Mr. CRAVEN. We have an appropriation, and we have our duties to perform under that appropriation.

Mr. WOODRUM. But there is no money for that in the 1939 appropriation.

Mr. CRAVEN. But we have information, without requiring any more data, to enable us to determine how we should regulate broadcasting. If we need more information, we can get it. I think that we have that authority.

Mr. WOODRUM. Are you able to say with any degree of definiteness hat it is the intention of the Commission to get right into that immediately, to give it thought and study, in order to

Mr. CRAVEN (interposing). I can say this with a good deal of uthority, that the Commission is fully aware that it must make an advanced study of all of the phases of broadcasting which have not -et been covered.

Mr. WOODRUM. And to be prepared to give to Congress, in the form f a report or in a hearing, such information and recommendations as night be required?

Mr. CRAVEN. That is right.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. May I say this, that this committee has been itting here for several years now, and it does not seem that we are aking any progress along these lines which you yourself say are of ajor importance. I realize the difficulties that the Commission has een confronted with in the present year, but it does seem to me that he time is far overdue when these things ought to be gone into and one into exhaustively.

Mr. CRAVEN. This Commission was formed in 1934, I believe. Mr. WOODRUM. That is when it was reorganized. We had the adio Commission long before that.

Mr. CRAVEN. I think that there is a good deal of merit in what you ve to say, but I do believe, however, that you should take into nsideration one factor. I do not believe that anybody in the untry has fully understood the application of broadcasting to the rvice of the country. It is a new art. It is a new development. is a new science and a new industry, and I think that it does take ne, particularly during times of depression, to fully understand it, d I think that that factor itself is an important factor in the delay. Mr. WOODRUM. Is it not also true that the time of the Commission s been taken up to a large extent in the formulation of fundamental licies with respect to granting licenses and what not, and because of k of appropriations it has not had an opportunity to give the

general thought and study to the question that might otherwise have been given to it?

Mr. CRAVEN. I think that you are entirely right. Every organization is subject to birth pangs and to make mistakes. I think that there has been a good deal of criticism of the Commission which has not been just and fair, and other criticism which has been just and fair, but I think that we should be given an opportunity under the new breath of life to go ahead now and see what we can do in the way of new information of a new character leading to a more complete understanding of the subject.

DENIAL OF LICENSE TO OSLO

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Do you know anything about the denial of a license to Oslo? Do you know why that application for a license was denied?

Mr. CRAVEN. I think that that has been the subject of investigation and that the information has been transmitted to Congress and to the Senate, and is a matter of record in the Senate. A full report of the engineering department and of the law department is in the files of the Senate. I participated in the engineering report. Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. In a word, what was the reason? Mr. CRAVEN. The reason of the Commission?

at this particular time what it was.

I cannot remember

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. What was the reason of your division?

Mr. CRAVEN. I did not make any recommendation as to what the decision of the Commission should be. I gave them three courses of action that they could take: denial, granting, or reopening for further evidence.

That is a very broad subject in the international field, and it involves quite a good deal of policy, and I felt personally that the Commission should be fully aware of all of the implications of what they were doing, and if I had been asked to make a recommendation, it would have been a reopening of the case.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. The R. C. A. enjoys a license that covers that now?

Mr. CRAVEN. The R. C. A. does.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Does anyone else?

Mr. CRAVEN. Not to Oslo.

I am perfectly aware that it involves questions of competitition, but I believe also in absolute reliability of service for the American people. The consideration of the actions of Europe with respect to channels of communication and their use for their own trade values are factors in the case.

Mr. DIRKSEN. In connection with the filing of registration statements covering any communications company, or anything_incident thereto, they are filed, of course, with the Securities and Exchange Commission. Are copies filed with your Commission also?

Mr. CRAVEN. No.

Mr. DIRKSEN. Does the Securities and Exchange Commission confer with your Commission with reference to the approval or denial of applications?

Mr. CRAVEN. We have had very good cooperation with the Securities and Exchange Commission. Naturally they must operate under their particular procedure, and so forth, and we must conform to the