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Mr. WARNE. I will close simply by saying that the Interior Department is dedicated to the purpose of getting the broadest type of planning on a basin-wide basis in the development of these western waters, and urging that any program undertaken by the Congress as a result of the proposal that is here made insure the comprehensive planning of these basins from end to end.

I think, for example, if Louisiana feels that she should not be in this that a way ought to be left open for her to reenter it during the planning period if they would like, because I cannot conceive of the purposes being served adequately by excluding one of the major sections of the area even though that section has flood-control plans which she believes is ample to her needs.

Senator KERR. Do you think it would be practicable, Mr. Warne, to amend the legislation so as to authorize the study of the area exclusive of Louisiana but leaving it so that Louisiana could, by the action of her Governor, be made a part of it if within a 12-month period she elected to do so and so stated, and followed through by selecting a member that could be made one of the members of the committee? Do you think that that would be a practical approach?

Mr. WARNE. I think that would be the least that ought to be done with regard to it. I do not think we ought to foreclose it completely, because I think it would be a serious weakness in the eventual plan.

I suspect if the program were undertaken Louisiana might feel that her own interests indicated that participation was an advantage rather than a disadvantage in it as the program went forward.

Senator KERR. Thank you very much, Mr. Warne.
Mr. WARNE. Thank you.
Senator KERR. Colonel Gee, you have made a report on this bill?

STATEMENT OF HERBERT C. GEE, LIEUTENANT COLONEL, OFFICE,

CHIEF OF ENGINEERS, DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY Colonel GEE. Mr. Chairman, I have the report of the Secretary of the Army on this bill which, I am advised, has now been cleared by the Bureau of the Budget and is in the process of being transmitted to the committee at the present time.

If I may, I would like to read that for the record.
Senator KERR. We will be glad to have you do that.

Colonel GEE. This is addressed to the chairman of the Committee on Public Works and signed by the Secretary of the Army:

Reference is made to your request for the views of this Department concerning S. 1576, Eighty-first Congress, "To establish the United States Study Commission on the Arkansas-White and Red River Basins."

The bill would establish a Commission to be composed of a chairman, resident of the Arkansas-White and Red River Basins, a representative of each of the le partments of the Army, Interior, and Agriculture, and of the Federal Power Coo mission, and a representative of each of the eight States of Arkansas, Colorado Kansas, Louisiana, Missouri, New Mexico, Oklahoma, and Texas. This Comuns sion would be authorized to formulate and transmit to the President and the Congress a comprehensive and coordinated plan or plans for the control. weer vation, and utilization of the waters and the land resources of the Arkansas White and Red River Basins.

The Corps of Engineers, acting pursuant to existing law, and previous author izations, is engaged on extensive programs of water resource development to the Arkansas, White and Red River Basins. These programs, developed in a operation with other interested Federal and State agencies, include the basie projects for the comprehensive development of the water resources of the river basins concerned.

It is recognized that it is necessary to supplement existing construction authorizations for these river basins and to that end Congress has authorized a number of additional review examinations and surveys in order that the plans of improvement may keep abreast of the needs of rapidly developing areas, and so that authorized programs may be expanded by authorization of additional projects widely spread throughout the territory. The new projects, developed in accordance with authorized surveys which are now underway, will operate in conjunction with the basic works already authorized, to round out the over-all program and augment the benefits to the public.

Existing law and procedure for study and accomplishment of water resource improvements provide for a high degree of coordination and cooperation between interested Federal agencies and the affected States. This procedure is particularly important in the case of large river basins such as those of the Arkansas, White, and Red Rivers, where it is necessary to consider the economics of water resource projects in relation to the basins as a whole rather than as individual units. It is considered, therefore, that the primary responsibility for planning and formulation of recommendations should continue to be vested in the existing Federal agencies, with full coordination with State and local interests, so that reports and recommendations may be transmitted to the Congress by the department and agency heads in the regular way. This is essential in order that plans and recommendations may be acceptable to the Federal agencies who will be expected by Congress to carry out the work; and to insure that there is no division of responsibility between planning and construction stages.

Accordingly, the Department of the Army does not favor enactment of S. 1576 in its present form.

The enclosed report has been coordinated among the Departments and Boards in the National Military Establishment in accordance with procedures prescribed by the Secretary of Defense.

The Bureau of the Budget advises that there is no objection to the submission of this report.

Senator KERR. Do you favor the principle of coordinated studies ? Colonel GEE. Yes, sir.

Senator KERR. It looks to me like the first part of your letter lays the basis for approval of the bill but, as I understand your conclusion, you do not approve the bill ?

Colonel GEE. That is correct.

Senator KERR. Is it on the ground that you think the desirable development of the basins is already sufficiently planned and moving forward at a rate sufficiently speedy to be acceptable to the Corps of Engineers ?

Colonel GEE. It is our belief that significant progress has already been made not only on the planning but on the construction of certain of the projects within the basin, all of which form a part of the over-all plan for water resource development in the basin. There are presently nine major projects complete in the basin of the Arkansas alone. There are 7 additional major projects under construction, 16 additional projects authorized.

Senator KERR. Has the Corps of Engineers made a comprehensive study of the White, Arkansas, and Red River Basins!

Colonel Gee. The corps has made one comprehensive study of the White, which is presently being reviewed, and a review report on this study will be before the Congress some time next year. There have been two comprehensive studies made of the Arkansas River, one directed at navigation, the second

Senator KERR. If it were directed at navigation, then you mean it was a comprehensive survey with reference to navigation possibilities?

Colonel GEE. Yes, sir.

Senator KERR. Not with reference to multiple-purpose surveys?

Colonel GEE. Full recognition was given in the development of individual projects to their possibilities for developing other benefits, such as flood control, silt retention, generation of hydroelectric power, establishment of conservation storage, and the basic benefit of navi. gation.

Senator KERR. Did it comprehend the development of irrigation or information with reference to the feasibility of irrigation projects!

Colonel GEE. It so happens that the portion of the Arkansas Basin which has a sufficient water supply to support a navigation project is not that portion of the basin where the irrigation problem is an acute one. It is the lower basin.

Senator KERR. Did the Colonel understand the question? Clonel GEE. Yes, sir. Senator KERR. Would you be willing to answer it? Colonel GEE. I must have misunderstood it if you do not construe what I just said as an answer, Mr. Chairman.

i senator KERR. Read the question, Mr. Reporter.

The reporter read as follows: "Did it comprehend the development of irrigation or information with reference to the feasibility of irrigation projects?”

Colonel GEE. I can answer that by saying only in the lower 40 percent of the Arkansas Basin, that being—

Senator Kerr. I am addressing my question as to whether or not it was a comprehensive study of either the White, Arkansas, or Red River Basins from the standpoint of feasibility, the economic benefits and costs of irrigation on those watersheds.

Colonel GEE. It was not; no, sir.

Senator KERR. Was it a comprehensive plan with reference to developing the economic benefits and costs with reference to the munici. pal water, industrial water, recreation, salinity control, and the other phases aside from the ones which you specifically mentioned which are included in this bill?

Colonel GEE. It was not; no, sir.

Senator KERR. Then, Colonel, it would be inaccurate for this record to show that the Corps of Engineers have made a comprehensive study of the White, Arkansas, and Red River water basins, or that they were now engaged in a comprehensive basin-wide study of either basin with reference to the multiple purposes as set forth in this bill.

Colonel GEE. I, of course, disagree with that statement, Mr. Chairman. As I already pointed out

Senator KERR. You just said it did not include a comprehensive study of irrigation. You just said it did not include a comprehensive study of recreational facilities, development of municipal water sur ply, salinity control, or any other feature of the bill except those which you specifically mentioned.

Colonel Gee. The comments which I made were all applicable to the comprehensive study for navigation on the Arkansas River. That was the only study to which I was addressing my remarks at prezen: and I understood your questions were directed at that.

Senator KERR. No; I was asking you if the Corps of Engineers had undertaken or conducted, or been authorized to make, a basin-wide study of either basin with reference to any of the elements contained in this bill except those of the limited scope which you had previously referred to as having been included in the studies which you have made.

Colonel GEE. Under the provisions of the Flood Control Act of 1944 investigations made by the Corps of Engineers subsequent to the passage of that act are required by law to consider the various purposes which are mentioned in your bill.

Senator KERR. Well, now, Colonel, do you know whether or not the Corps of Engineers has made a comprehensive study of these basins with reference to these items? I would like to have you state for the record whether or not they have on the items of flood control and prevention.

Colonel GEE. Yes, sir.
Senator KERR. Domestic and municipal water supplies?
Colonel Gee. May I ask a question at that point, Mr. Chairman?
Senator KERR. Certainly.

Colonel GEE. Do I interpret your question to mean have we conducted any investigations in it specifically at that?

(See list of authorizations on p. 664.)

Senator KERR. I am asking you if you have conducted a comprehensive basin-wide study on either basin of the economic benefits and economic costs of the resources of that basin with reference to domestic and municipal water supplies?

Colonel GEE. Yes, sir.

Senator KERR. By what authorization, with reference to which basin ?

Colonel GEE. The comprehensive investigation of the White, and the review of that investigation presently underway to give consideration to that problem, under authority of resolutions dated January 24, 1939, by the House Rivers and Harbors Committee and February 9, 1939, by the Senate Committee on Commerce.

Senator KERR. Is it a comprehensive study of the basin with reference to domestic and municipal water supplies?

Colonel GEE. Yes, sir.
Senator KERR. How about the Arkansas Basin ?

Colonel GEE. The comprehensive investigation of the Arkansas for flood control likewise gave consideration to that problem.

Senator KERR. On a comprehensive basis?
Colonel GEE. Yes, sir.
Senator KERR. With reference to the Red River !

Colonel GEE. Yes, sir. There has been one comprehensive report on the Red. There is now underway a review investigation of the lower portions of the Red River below Denison Dam which has the same purpose in mind, to review the problem on the lower Red to determine whether or not there are any of these matters which require changes in the presently approved plan of the lower Red River.

Senator KERR. Are those reports extant?

Colonel GEE. The report on the lower Red River is not as yet complete. The report on the White River, as I mentioned earlier, will be before the Congress next year. The flood-control report on the Arkansas is a printed document and is available.

Senator KERR. Would you identify it and provide the committee with a copy of it?

Colonel GEE. I will do so, yes, sir. House Document 758 of the Seventy-ninth Congress, second session is the report on the Arkansas River to which I have referred.

Senator KERR. What part of the basin does it cover!

Colonel GEE. It includes the States of Arkansas and Oklahoma, which would constitute the lower 50 percent.

Senator KERR. You are surely aware of the questions I am asking you, Colonel ?

Colonel GEE. Yes, sir.

Senator KERR. I am asking you with reference to basin-wide studies, and you have answered that they have been made. Now if you do not understand that question, I suggest that you study it and understand it. If you do, I suggest that you either show this committee a basinwide study of the Arkansas or that you amend your answer that one has been made.

Colonel GEE. The authority cited in this report

Senator KERR. You just stated it covered that part of it within Arkansas and Oklahoma?

Colonel GEE. Yes, sir.

Senator KERR. You are aware that the entire southern half of Kansas is in the basin of the Arkansas, are you not, Colonel?

Colonel GEE. Yes, sir.
Senator KERR. Is that a part of your study?
Colonel GEE. This review-
Senator KERR. Answer my question, Colonel.
Colonel GEE. No, sir; it was not.
Senator KERR. Was that part of it in Colorado a part of your study
Colonel GEE. No, sir.

Senator KERR. Well, then, was your statement that a comprehensive basin-wide flood-control study of the Arkansas River has been made by your Corps an accurate statement? Colonel GEE. With respect to this document I should say "No."

Senator KERR. With respect to any document, was it an accurate statement ?

Colonel GEE. I would like to answer your question by submitting to the committee a list of those investigations which have been made on the Arkansas River.

Senator KERR. I asked you if a basin-wide study of the Arkansas River with reference to domestic and first with reference to flood control and prevention had been made, and you said “Yes." I then asked you if a basin-wide study of the Arkansas had been made by the Corps of Engineers with reference to the domestic and municipal water supplies, and you said “Yes."

Colonel GEE. Yes, sir.

Senator KERR. I would be glad for you to submit to this committee documents which show the results of those studies.

Colonel GEE. I would be very pleased to do that.

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