Mr. BURKE. The allegation is made that the election was held purely on the basis, you might say, that it was to be used for the purpose of racial discrimination, as an incentive.

Mr. POWELL. If you suggest that, we will ask the clerk to invite the union in to answer these charges.

Mr. BURKE. Will you furnish the names of the other unions to the clerk?

Mr. ALLEN. Yes.

Mr. POWELL. Thank you ever so much. We are very happy to have you with us, and we trust that the FEPC will go through and it will help the workers in Alabama and everywhere else.

We will adjourn now until 2:30.

(Whereupon, at 12: 35 p. m., the committee recessed to 2:30 p. m. of the same day.)

AFTERNOON SESSION

(The committee reconvened at 2: 45 p. m., Hon. Adam C. Powell, Jr., presiding.)

Mr. POWELL. The committee will come to order. Mr. Nixon will be here in a few minutes, but we will go ahead in the meantime.

Representative Werdel, will you come up and sit with us?

I am going to ask that Mr. Houston come up first, and then Mr. Johnson will follow Mr. Houston, and then Mr. Corbett.

TESTIMONY OF CHARLES HOUSTON-Resumed

Mr. HOUSTON. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, yesterday the committee heard from the Brotherhood of Railroad Trainmen and the Brotherhood of Locomotive Firemen and Enginemen. These are what you might refer to as the ground-floor organization, because they have jurisdiction over the men in the train and engine service when they first come on the property.

The organizations which you still have to hear from today are the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers and the Order of Railway Conductors-organizations which originally were for what you might call crafts on the second story-and that brings up the very basic point about the organization of railway labor; that is to say, that the conductors are taken by promotion from the ranks of trainmen or brakemen and the engineers are taken by promotion from the ranks of firemen; no engineer on a railroad today is an engineer who has not served his apprenticeship as a fireman, nor is there any conductor, so far as I know, on a railroad today-I am not speaking of pullman conductors-but any conductor who has not served his apprenticeship as a brakeman or a trainman.

That is very important, for two reasons: One is that the men move up and back and forth between the two crafts by promotion, and they carry their seniority which they first acquire either as trainmen or as firemen with them when they are promoted, so that the man who is an engineer also has a seniority date as a fireman from the day he first served as a fireman, and a man who is a conductor has seniority also as a brakeman or a trainman from the day he first served. The point is that the railroad insures a reserve labor pool and keeps its men available by what you might call promotion, and sending them back

according to the expansion or contraction of the industry, so that an engineer could go back to firing when business is reduced or a conductor can go back to braking when business is reduced, and he is there available to resume immediately his job as either an engineer or as a fireman or as a conductor when business expands.

Now, that is reflected not only in the operation and handling of these employees by management; it is also reflected in the union organization, because both the Order of Railway Conductors and the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers take men who have not yet become qualified in their particular ranks; that is to say, the Order of Railway Conductors will take brakemen and the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers will take firemen, so that you see that there is a constant flow back and forth between the two organizations. They call the men who belong to both organizations "double-headers," and in the policies of one organization to the other organization they tend, through the interchange of membership, to more or less reflect certain similarities on basic issues.

There is also the connection between the organizations. In the train-service group you have the Switchmen's Union of North America, which is a small organization generally referred to as the "splinter group"; you have the Brotherhood of Railroad Trainmen; and then you have the second-story organization, the Order of Railway Conductors.

In the engine-service employees you have the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers and the Brotherhood of Locomotive Firemen and Enginemen.

One of the circumstances which causes rigidity is the matter of race relations, for example: I know as between the Brotherhood of Firemen and enginemen and the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers there is a fear that if either one of them shows any softening so far as the race relations are concerned, the rival organization will berate them under the theory that "you are giving in to the Negroes."

I have had that told me time and again by the Brotherhood of Locomotive Firemen and Enginemen with respect to the engineers. Now the two organizations are attempting to get together and form a joint organization of the Brotherhood of Locomotive Firemen and Enginemen and the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers.

Let me now then take up the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers. The Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers was organized as the Brotherhood of the Footboard on the Michigan Central in 1863.

I think it is very interesting in connection with that, when we are talking about the matter of race relations, to realize that one of the reasons which caused the organization, or certainly precipitated it, was in the Civil War, during the manpower shortage, the attempt on the part of the Michigan Central to put Negro firemen on; whereupon the Michigan Central engineers protested, and the Brotherhood of the Footboard was in part the result.

The Brotherhood of the Footboard has by changes become the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers. The constitution did not bar Negroes until 1875, but in 1875 the constitution was changed and still remains a constitution which restricts membership to whites. There are no Negroes, so far as I know

Mr. POWELL. May I interrupt right there? Are there any Jews in the brotherhoods, so far as you know?

Mr. HOUSTON. No.

Mr. POWELL. Proceed.

Mr. HOUSTON. You appreciate the fact that it is almost impossible to find out who is Jewish and who is not Jewish, but certainly the record of employment on the railroads is that the Jews are not employed in train and engine service on the railroads as a class. They are certainly not conspicuous.

In 1892 the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers made an agreement to help firemen get rid of the Negroes. At that particular time there was a great question about promoting firemen to engineers.

Now, the presence of Negroes as firemen on the southern railroads provided spots where the engineers up North in time of labor excess or surplus could come down to the South and get hired as engineers. This meant that the engineers did not particularly care for the promotion idea on the southern railroads, because it represented a place to spot their surplus men.

The Brotherhood of Locomotive Firemen and Enginemen wanted more firemen promoted on the southern railroads, and they tried to get together and work it out with the firemen collaborating with the engineers. The engineers joined with them in a movement to try to rid the southern roads of Negro firemen, and in 1892 the engineers agreed to do so.

In 1899 the engineers joined with the Brotherhood of Railroad Trainmen, the Brotherhood of Locomotive Firemen and Enginemen, the Order of Railway Conductors, and the Order of Railroad Telegraphers in displacing Negro colored porters on the Gulf Coast & Santa Fe.

In 1908 there was an authorization on the part of the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers to organize the engineers in South America. There was a report back to the 1910 convention, and I think that is very important, because it is a report from F. A. Burgess, who was assistant grand chief engineer.

On May 11, 1910, at the ninth biennial session in Detroit, Mich., at pages 105 and 107, Burgess starts like this:

Brothers, the grand chief has told you that we did not organize Cuba, but I do not believe he went so far as to say we didn't try. Let me make this report, and then it will be a question whether you want him to try.

I will admit that I was one of the members of this brotherhood that thought we ought to organize Cuba. I will plead guilty and will frankly admit that I did not know what I was talking about.

In pursuance with his instructions, I went to Havana and to all the terminals of any consequence in Cuba. We did not organize any of the engineers in Cuba, for what we considered the most excellent of reasons: that we were unable to distinguish the nigger from the white man. Our color perception was not sensitive enough to draw a line. I do not believe that the condition will improve in a year from now or in 10 years from now or in any other time, unless you stock the island of Cuba with a new race, entirely getting rid of the old.

We call ourselves thoroughbreds, but I do not believe you can tell a thoroughbred from a renegade Spanish soldier intermixed with the Jamaica Negro. That is where the largest part of the population of Cuba sprang from-the Spanish soldier and the Jamaica Negro.

And he winds up with this expression:

On the other hand, there is a higher duty you owe to this organization than to yourselves, and I hope that the time will never come when this organization will have to join hands with the Negro or a man with a fractional part of a New him. Now that is the way the case stands.

I bring that out because this history has no place except as it reflects the present condition, and the present condition is still that of barring Negroes.

As a matter of fact, to the best of my knowledge and our information, and this was certainly true when I last checked it, the Brotherhood of Railroad Trainmen and the Brotherhood of Locomotive Firemen and Enginemen have amended their constitution so that in States which by law prohibit the exclusion of a worker from a union on the ground of race, creed, or color, in those States the constitution limiting membership to whites does not apply. Nevertheless, of course, in spite of the law, no Negro gets in, because they have the blackball system, and he is knocked out by blackballs.

However, the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers has not even changed its constitution, so far as I know, even for a State such as New York.

In 1917 Grand Chief Engineer Stone wired his general chairman on the B. & O. that engineers would be justified in refusing to take Negro firemen out on their runs. That is the same, may it please the committee, as a strike. In other words, if an engineer refuses to go out on a run because he does not have a fireman, that in substance is withdrawing from the service and is a strike.

I should like to read the resolution that was passed. This is the resolution of the advisory board of the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers in session at Cleveland:

Resolved, That it will be the policy of the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers that Negroes will not be permitted to fire locomotives on any railroad that does not now employ them as such, and we will request that on such roads as do now employ them that they be confined to the districts as defined for them at the present time, and that the percentage of Negro firemen on divisions where they are employed jointly with white firemen be not increased.

Mr. BURKE. What is the date of that?

Mr. HOUSTON. 1917.

Mr. POWELL. During World War I?

Mr. HOUSTON. During World War I. The source is the Locomotive Firemen's magazine of the 15th of August 1917, at pages 11 and 12.

Mr. POWELL. What brotherhood was it that ordered a strike ballot during World War I?

Mr. HOUSTON. That was World War II. In World War I it was the Brotherhood of Locomotive Firemen and Enginemen which said they would be supported, the men would be supported in striking; but it is the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers when the grand chief engineer tells the men that they will be supported in refusing to take their engines without a white fireman. So that in substance it is both organizations.

In 1917 there was joint action by the Brotherhood of Railroad Trainmen, Brotherhood of Locomotive Firemen and Enginemen, and Order of Railway Conductors in getting three white brakemen on in place of Negroes on the Texas & Pacific Railway.

In 1928 there was an agreement on the Frisco not to hire any more Negroes in train, engine, and yard service, not including train porters, which was signed by J. W. Bohler, who was general chairman of the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers, and the assistant grand chief engineer.

On March 21, 1944, the general chairman of the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers on the Frisco signed a joint letter with the Brotherhood of Railroad Trainmen, which goes back to the question that you asked about whether there was any evidence that the Brotherhood of Railroad Trainmen resisted the employment of Negroes in World War II.

Ön March 21, 1944, the general chairman of the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers on the St. Louis-San Francisco Railroad, and the general chairman of the Brotherhood of Railroad Trainmen sent a joint letter that they were unalterably opposed to the employment of Negroes in train and engine service in the war emergency, and at the present time there is a proposal under foot between the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers and Brotherhood of Locomotive Firemen and Enginemen for a merger.

Now, as to the problems of promotion: on that I should like to introduce the matter which Mr. McBride talked about. I am giving the committee an actual copy of the promotion notice which Mr. McBride expressed for the Brotherhood of Locomotive Firemen and Enginemen, as of January 26, 1948, and I ask that it be inserted in my testimony.

Mr. POWELL. Without objection, it will be inserted. (The document referred to is as follows:)

BROTHERHOOD OF LOCOMOTIVE FIREMEN AND ENGINEMEN,

January 26, 1948.

DEAR SIR: This is to advise that the employees of the constituting the craft or class represented by the Brotherhood of Locomotive Firemen and Enginemen, have, through their duly constituted representatives, approved the following proposal for addition to and/or revision of the existing agreement or agreements:

1. All firemen and helpers now in service or hereafter employed shall be in line for promotion to the position of locomotive engineer. Each fireman and helper shall be called in seniority order and required to take examinations for promotion. Those who pass such examinations and meet all other requirements for promotion will be promoted to engineer. Those who decline to take the examinations or fail to qualify for promotion shall be dismissed from the service.

2. All firemen and helpers who heretofore failed to pass, declined to take, or were not called for promotional examinations shall, subject to the provisions of section 1 above, be called for promotion and required to pass the necessary examinations and otherwise qualify for the necessary examinations and otherwise qualify for promotion within a reasonable length of time (to be agreed upon) from the effective date of this agreement.

3. Eliminate all provisions of existing agreements which limit in any manner the exercise of seniority of firemen and helpers, hostlers and hostler helpers.

4. All provisions of existing agreements not in conflict with or modified by the foregoing shall remain unchanged.

In accordance with the terms of the existing agreement, and in conformity with the provisions of the Railway Labor Act, as amended, please accept this as the required formal notice of our desire to revise and/or eliminate portions of the existing agreement or agreements to the extent indicated.

The same request, as of this date, is being presented to the managements of practically all railways situated in the Southeastern District.

It is hereby requested that all lines or divisions of railway controlled by the shall be included in settlement of this proposal and that any agreement reached shall apply alike to all such lines or divisions.

It is desired that reply to this proposal be made in writing to the undersigned on or before February 5, 1948, concurring therein or fixing date within thirty