Mr. MADDEN. No; I have no questions. Mr. McCowEN. I guess they do not have any, Mr. Hedges. Mr. MACARTHUR. Mr. Chairman, could we proceed with the motion picture while we are waiting for the other witness? Mr. McCOWEN. Very well, we will proceed with the picture. TESTIMONY OF FRANK L. FERNBACH-Recalled Mr. FERNBACH. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, before we see this picture I think it might be helpful in the way of background to say one or two words about it. You will not see a Hollywood production here. This is a picture of people who are nonprofessionals. All the people in this picture are either steel workers from the mills, mostly of Pennsylvania, or members of the faculty of Penn State College. As you see this picture, which depicts a typical institute of steel workers studying at Penn State, you might care to bear in mind that it is only one of 15 institutes that our international union, the United Steelworkers of America, conducted in cooperation with American universities and colleges, the type of program that is envisaged, broadly extended, under the labor extension bill. It might be interesting to Congressman Kersten that his great State university at Wisconsin played host to a hundred steel workers from Wisconsin and Minnesota, in identically this type of an institute. Wisconsin has been a pioneer. It would be of interest to the representative of New York that this is the type of program being evolved at Cornell. I think it would be of interest to Congressman Schwabe that a great number of steel workers from Missouri attended conference sessions, interestingly enough, at Kansas University, and at the University of Illinois. Missouri's interest in developing this program was indicated at the Senate hearing by the statement submitted in support of this bill by Dr. Arthur Compton, chancelor of Washington University at St. Louis. In Ohio steel workers attended conferences of this sort at Antioch and programs are developing at Ohio State. The office workers are going to school there this summer, I understand. In Indiana, steel workers went to school at the University of Indiana, in a similar institute. In New Hampshire, the same; in California, the same, and in Michigan, the same. This is a great movement which typifies the bringing together of the world of knowledge and the world of labor in an effort to create better understanding between labor, management, and all of our citizenry. I want to just point out one further fact, and it is not indicated in the course of the picture. Every cent for this educational experience is paid for by workers out of their pockets or by their unions, and not by the universities, not by the States or the Federal Government. These workers come to Penn State during the summer, and if they lose wages, the local unions pay their wages for the week. Board and lodging must be paid and transportation must be paid; and if you please, the tuition must be paid. Each one of these students went to Penn State for a week at a cost of about $135 to workers or their unions. Directly or indirectly, through their unions, the workers paid the entire bill. I wish you would contrast that- and bear in mind Pennsylvania has 312 million nonagricultural wage earners-contrast that with the fact that last year in Pennsylvania $1,350,000 was expended on farm education, of which 60 percent came from Federal funds, and not 1 cent of fees was charged to the 800,000 farm family members of Pennsylvania who benefited from this service. Only 1,000 Pennsylvania workers, however, have benefited by a labor extension program so far in Pennsylvania. There are thousands and thousands who would do so, were the funds and the facilities made available. If the picture provokes questions after you have seen it, with regard to the curriculum or any other matter, I would be only too glad to say a word about it. And now the picture which, as you will see, was jointly made by Penn State College, our State University in Pennsylvania, and the United Steel Workers of America. (A moving picture was shown.) Mr. MADDEN. Could I ask a question? What is the measure of the effect of these studies on the students? Mr. FERNBACH. Well, Congressman, I want to say a word first about the students. The men and the women you saw in this picture are mostly shop stewards, grievance committeemen, and officers of their local unions. In our own international union, the steelworkers, we have 2,000 local unions. We have a minimum of 10 officers in each local, which gives you 20,000 officers in the steel industry representing labor in collective bargaining. However, in addition to the officers, there are grievance committeemen and shop stewards. Roughly I would say there are 50,000 steelworkers who deal directly with management at one level or another, and it is these men who primarily determine, as far as labor can affect the outcome, the quality of the relationship with management. At Portsmouth Steel, for example, Mr. Chairman, a number of the Portsmouth steelworkers went to our institute in Ohio. Because of the high cost, the tendency was to select those who are in the most responsible positions because they guide the relationship with management of the Portsmouth Steel Corp. They need more specifically this type of training to improve the quality of that relationship. Incidentally, the Portsmouth Steel Corp. management is in support of this program and at the Senate hearings the chairman of the board, Mr. Cyrus Eaton, of Cleveland, introduced a statement in support of this bill. Mr. MADDEN. Is the public admitted to these classes? Mr. FERNBACH. The public is admitted. There is nothing secretive; there is nothing private. During the course of these programs several management representatives dropped in at Penn State and at other universities. Of course, they participated as guests. They knew pre cisely what was going on. There can't be anything secret or private in a tax-supported institution. This I think answers clearly your first question. I want to read several comments of some of the steelworkers who went to Penn State last summer. They might be those whom you saw in this picture. These comments were assembled by Penn State in the report of Professor Luchak, director of labor studies, who was in charge of the school. One said: To me this was an unforgettable experience in my life, one that I am sure will make me a much better union officer and a better all-around citizen of the United States. Another said: I have raised my sights, and intend to shoot for better things in life for my family, my fellowman, and myself. Another says: This course is highly concentrated, interesting, and has shown me many of my faults in my dealings with the members in my local and with management when I was a committeeman in the past few years. I would like to point out that the institute you saw picturized here was conducted in 1946. We began at Penn State. The next year we had to move to these 10 or 11 other campuses because our steelworkers exist in all parts of the country and they demanded that this opportunity be made available. Contacts were made with additional universities and these programs were established. This year we are extending the program still further. But our problem and our interest is not exclusively a 1-week course in the summertime. The question our people raised again and again was, "Can't we have more of this back home in our mill towns?" Be it Portsmouth, Ohio, St. Louis, Buffalo, N. Y., or Indianapolis? "How can we get this program directly out to our people who cannot come here for a week in the summer?" The universities reply, "We have extension departments; we have funds for agricultural extension. We have no funds for labor education. We would like to bring instruction in these same subjects to more of your people in the mill towns where they live and work, in a course that might run for 6 or 8 weeks, in a school building or a union hall for steelworkers who spend their days at the mill. But the funds are not available." Penn State last year did run, I believe, six or seven extension courses with unions in several of our industrial centers. But the service covered only a thousand workers all told-not exclusively steel workers. The teamsters union, A. F. of L., had an institute similar to this one at Penn State College. The International Ladies' Garment Workers Union, A. F. of L., did likewise. The hosiery workers did likewise. The coal miners are interested. The machinists are interested. This vast number of thousands and thousands of Pennsylvania industrial workers Mr. MADDEN. Do you have a school at the University of Illinois? Mr. FERNBACH. We have one at the University of Illinois. They are conducting an institute, I believe, in 2 or 3 weeks for the laundry workers from the State of Illinois. The breadth of this thing, the potentialities are tremendous. I attended this conference myself at Penn State, and many others throughout the country. I believe we must not lose sight of the intangible value, the improvement of industrial relations fundamentally, the improvement of the qualities of citizenship fundamentally. But if you could feel how these men and women feel who see their State university for the first time-they had only known there was a Penn State College. All they had known was that in many instances, their management representatives were graduates and the upper class, let us say, of the community, had benefited from the campuses and the facilities thereon. Mr. MADDEN. Will you yield there a moment? Mr. Chairman, I talked to quite a number of steel workers from the Calumet region that were present at the University of Illinois— they were unanimous in their gratitude for the course they took, and are looking forward to a course next summer. Mr. FERNBACH. That is correct. I was trying to indicate the changed attitude of people who had always felt they were from the other side of the tracks. This is a democratic country, but somehow, those who work in the mills, the mines, or the shops do not enjoy the opportunity. These people came from Pittsburgh; from the mill towns along the Monongahela and the Ohio Rivers; from Conshohocken, an industrial suburb of Philadelphia; from all over our State. They went to this magnificent campus. They knew they had supported it with their taxes. For the first time they were students. They enjoyed the great opportunities, even if just for a week. I think it did a lot to change attitudes toward State government, toward society, certainly toward education. For example, our people saw a moving picture of the whole process of making steel from the iron ore to the finished war product. It was produced by the Bethlehem Steel Corp. There were Bethlehem steel workers at Penn State. They had never seen that picture. They had never seen so clearly where they fitted into the total process of the making of steel. But here they saw it at Penn State. They also went into the metallurgical labs and saw some of the processes of making steel in miniature. They had a feeling, upon completion of that experience, of the dignity and importance of their jobs in the mills, of their place in the total war effort. That was all given to them by participation in this type of experience. Mr. GWINN. Do you contemplate a selective process going on there so that in the end the shop stewards or those who are elected by their fellows to leadership will in all probability be the ones who will take advantage of this educational program? Mr. FERNBACH. We have not set up a requirement that this educational program must have been gone through before a man can stand to be elected to office. Mr. Mark Starr, who I understand will be here-he is now getting off the train and will be here in a few moments-his international union, the ladies' garment workers' union, I understand has made it a requirement that before you can run for paid office you have to have taken certain educational programs which qualifies you for a minimum fulfillment of leadership requirements. Mr. GWINN. I wonder how you expect to select from the great numbers, those who will want to take advantage of this opportunity? Mr. FERNBACH. Our problem, Congressman Gwinn, is in a sense how to meet a demand that is so great there are not facilities adequate for it. Our locals primarily set up these scholarships for their officers first. Penn State is having a third steel workers institute. Another 400 will come this summer. We tried to eliminate repetition, obviously, because we want to broaden this experience and provide it for the greatest number of our people. But it is somewhat of a tragedy to have to tell a man who has gone to Penn State, for example, for a week and has become tremendously interested in gaining further knowledge, that he cannot receive more instruction because facilities are not available. Our contracts all call for arbitration of disputed contract terms. Arbitration is sometimes not too highly thought of because steel workers, like all workers, so often feel, when they meet management across the table, that knowledge is monopolized on their side; they have the trained labor lawyers, statisticians, and economists; we in the local cannot stand up very well, even though we know we have the facts. This young man begins to learn how to prepare a brief; how to speak on his feet. It is kind of difficult to tell him he can go no further in his instruction because funds are not available. Our interest is not to contract opportunity, it is to expand it so far that any wage earner who wants to learn has that opportunity, whether it be at a short institute on a college campus, or through extension classes in the union halls. Under the terms of this bill in addition, we want to bring library services to our people. We want them to read. We want them to become familiar with the technique of investigation of facts, to develop the attitude of "let's look at all the facts, then let us see where logic and reason leads us." Rather than, "Let's pull the whistle first and see what happens afterward." Mr. GWINN. What share of the expense of this education do you think the individual will bear? Mr. FERNBACH. Under the terms of the bill as revised and reintroduced by Congressmen Madden and Tollefson, a provision was written in, and I think very wisely, by the Senate committee, that fees may be charged. Educators-labor educators, as well as university educators-feel that the charging of moderate fees is desirable, one, to help financial support, and, second, because the payment of a sum, no matter how small, adds to interest in a program. The American people, unfortunately, too often think that something completely free is worthless. Mr. MADDEN. Will you vield there? Mr. FERNBACH. Certainly, sir. Mr. MADDEN. I might say this: The University of Indiana has an extension building in my district, that is, up in the north end at East Chicago, Ind. They conducted night schools there for workers that wanted to attend these night schools. They just did not have room enough for the number of workers that wanted to attend those night |