LABOR EDUCATION EXTENSION SERVICE

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 14, 1948

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

SUBCOMMITTEE No. 1,

COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND LABOR,

Washington, D. C.

The subcommittee met, pursuant to adjournment, at 10 a. m., Hon. Edward O. McCowen (chairman of the subcommittee), presiding. Mr. McCOWEN. The committee will come to order.

Without objection, the statement of Harry See, national legislative representative, Brotherhood of Railroad Trainmen, will be inserted. in the record.

(The statement is as follows:)

STATEMENT OF HARRY SEE, NATIONAL LEGISLATIVE REPRESENTATIVE, BROTHERHOOD OF RAILROAD TRAINMEN, RE H. R. 4078 AND H. R. 4232

Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, my name is Harry See and I am national legislative representative of the Brotherhood of Railroad Trainmen, with offices at 130 Third Street SE., Washington, D. C. Our headquarters are located at Cleveland, Ohio.

The Brotherhood of Railroad Trainmen favors this legislation and I appreciate this opportunity to state our position. Over 100 years ago wage earners of this country took an active part in the struggle for a system of free public education. The support of this school system by labor arose from the realization that if this democracy were to survive and flourish, it must rest upon an educated citizenry. A central point in our American democracy is "equality of opportunity" and we in organized labor look upon free public education as one important means of obtaining it.

We have traveled a long way since the time of this early strugggle. Facilities for elementary, secondary, and collegiate education have expanded tremendously. The opportunity for education for the American people has greatly increased. Formal educational facilities have been supplemented by facilities of an informal character made possible by new inventions and improved communication facilities.

This expansion of educational opportunities has developed not only from the original concept which underlay the establishment of our system of free public education, but has been made necessary by the growing complexity of our modern day life.

The program contemplated in the Labor Extension Service is, therefore, in the best American tradition. It was founded on the recognition of the need for an educated citizenry. Its enactment into law is made urgent because of the need for educating the modern industrial worker to play an active role in our industrial democracy.

The proposed program makes it possible for the average rank-and-file worker to secure information necessary for maximum understanding and participation in collective bargaining. It would make it possible for the American worker to participate intelligently in the discussions of these difficult issues.

The Labor Extension Service Act, however, does not limit itself to activities of this character. It contemplates making available to the wage earner educational facilities for meeting the many problems that impinge upon his life. Thus, the

wage earner would be given the opportunity to learn more about our socialsecurity system, unemployment insurance, workmen's compensation, and employers' liability laws. The American worker would be given the opportunity to learn mediation and conciliation services, and legislation dealing with the whole problem of collective bargaining. These are complicated matters, and the welfare of the whole country, as well as that of the wage earner, requires that he be given an opportunity to acquaint himself with the facts about these broad problems. Only thus can the wage earners secure the information necessary for maximum participation in their jobs, their organizations, and their community life.

The brotherhood urges upon this committee that the present scheme for administering the provisions of the act be retained. I should like to place particular emphasis upon the importance of placing this service within the Department of Labor. This Department has as its purpose the promotion of the welfare of the wage earners of the United States. Its work in the past has been such as to make it the Federal agency best equipped to develop the minimum standards required to guide the administration of the programs contemplated under the proposed bill.

The Department of Labor, through the work of the Bureau of Statistics, Division of Labor Standards, the Women's Bureau, the Wage and Hour Division, and other divisions and bureaus, has readily available much of the information which is needed in the development of a workers' education program. We feel that the successful operation of the proposed program requires the type of administration outlined in the bill.

The Labor Extension Service is a belated recognition of the educational needs of the American wage earner. Parallel services have been made available to the American farmer for many years. The wide support given the bills before this subcommittee indicates the widespread demand for the program which this bill contemplates. We, therefore, urge your committee to recommend to the Congress immediate action to bring this program into effect.

Mr. McCOWEN. I would like to say we particularly would appreciate the cooperation of all the witnesses if they would try to keep within the time limit, as we are not supposed to continue after 12 if the House is in session, although we do run over a little bit, if there is no objection, but not very long,

Mr. MADDEN. Mr. Chairman, before you call the first witness I wish to present a letter from Paul Strachan, president of the American Federation of the Physically Handicapped, Inc. He asked me to insert this letter in the record, setting out that during the past war more than 1,350,000 physically handicapped were placed in employment through the United States Employment Service, and others were employed through private agencies.

Hon. RAY MADDEN,

Member of Congress, House of Representatives,

Washington, D. C.

APRIL 12, 1948.

DEAR RAY: At hearings on the proposed Labor Extension Service bill, which, I understand, open tomorrow, I will thank you to register this federation as being in strong support of the bill.

During the past war, more than 1,350,000 physically handicapped were placed in employment, through the United States Employment Service, and others were employed through private agencies.

Many of them had never been permitted to hold any job before, and, obviously, as a group, the handicapped need education in labor relations more than any other group of people in the United States.

We believe passage of this act would insure a continuing program, one in which the whole problem could be studied, objectively, and, best of all, it would tend to promote a condition wherein workers and employers would learn to understand each other's viewpoint, so that industrial strife, born, in many instances, of misapprehensions and misunderstandings, would be, to a very marked degree, curtailed, if not entirely eliminated. I congratulate you upon sponsoring this constructive legislation, and wish for its speedy enactment.

Fraternally,

PAUL A. STRACHAN, President.

Mr. McCOWEN. Without objection, the statement will be inserted in the record.

The arrangement of the program was left to the interested organizations and the secretary of the committee. They have placed four to five representatives on the schedule for each day, which does limit the time automatically, without either the committee or the Chair having limited the time.

It is the desire of this subcommittee to have the question discussed as thoroughly by both sides as possible. I believe if each witness will consume not more than 15 minutes, and leave 15 minutes for questioning by the members of the committee, we can get along very well and get a full discussion of your respective different points of view on this piece of legislation.

You can, to your own satisfaction, limit your statement to 10 minutes, and have the entire statement inserted in the record. It will be helpful all around and not harmful in any way, so far as the Chair

can see.

By making a summary of certain parts of your statement, it probably would be possible to keep your statements within the 10 minutes, although we will not call time on you until 15 minutes have elapsed.

Mr. GWINN. Mr. Chairman, in that connection, I understand there is a little anxiety on the part of some of the witnesses, and particularly the secretary of the Association for the Extension of Labor Education, that they will not be able to get some of the presidents of some of the colleges where labor education is now going on here this week; that they have been pressed to bring within the 4-day period everything they have prepared, which is making it difficult.

I think the committee ought surely to have statements from some of the universities where this labor education is now being carried on, even if we have to carry it over for a couple of mornings next week. What would you think of that?

Mr. McCowEN. The Chair has been previously informed of the fact that there were some who seemed not to know about the arrangement in time to get in on the program, although fully enough time had been given; information about the possibility of legislation bas been known for a long time.

Of course, the Chair and the committee has no intention and has not had any intention of doing anything to curtail the statements of any and all witnesses that would be helpful in understanding this piece of legislation before action is taken.

So we will proceed for the remainder of this week. In the meantime, the secretary of this committee can receive requests from any and all sources-which includes what you have mentioned, Mr. Gwinn-and if an extension of the program is advisable and necessary, of course it will be granted, regardless of any previous set-up. In other words, full and free deliberation will be had, and nothing else has ever been intended.

Now, as to whether the continuation will be next week or not is another question. The continuation would not necessarily have to be next week. The continuation can be at whatever time we can work out, and such time given as seems really advisable and necessary to get a full understanding of the proposed legislation.

I think that covers the point, Mr. Gwinn.

Mr. GWINN. That is right, sir.

Mr. McCOWEN. I might say I had intended to make that same statement later in the hearings. I am glad my colleague brought it out at

this time.

The first witness on our schedule today is Mr. Kermit Eby.

TESTIMONY OF KERMIT EBY, DIRECTOR OF EDUCATION AND RESEARCH, CONGRESS OF INDUSTRIAL ORGANIZATIONS

Mr. EBY. Mr. Chairman, my name is Kermit Eby. I am director of education and research for the Congress of Industrial Organizations. My office address is 718 Jackson Place NW., Washington 6, D. C.

I am appearing this morning for President Murray, who has been consistently interested in this legislation.

I have with me and will submit for the record the resolution passed at the last convention.

I do not expect to read the testimony. In submitting it for the record, I do want to say that President Murray has been consistently interested in this legislation. I hope in the time allotted to me to talk to you very frankly about my work as director of education and research and the relation of this type of legislation to it.

First, I would like to say our fundamental philosophy on education in the CIO is, as much as I can be responsible for it, that good labor relations are determined by people who are informed and competent in that particular area. In other words, we believe there are other approaches to labor peace and labor understanding than the legalistic. We believe that information on the psychological factors, and, if you please, even the spiritual factors of humanity are involved in every way with matters as intricate and complicated as this contemporary legislation.

So I should say the fundamental interest we have in this type of legislation is an interest which is determined by a conviction that people have to be informed.

The second thing which plays a very marked part in it is this: Any of you who know-and most of you do-the problem of labor relations, know how many people are involved in the day-to-day relation between labor and management. I do not know the exact figures, but estimates have been given that as many as a quarter of a million people meet in the labor-management field in the CIO alone, from the shopsteward level up and down.

We also know that we have moved through a period of history when many of these relationships have been determined by the relationships which grow out of conflict.

I would accept the fact that labor, because of certain feelings within it, has developed psychological inferiority complexes. For example, many people in labor believe that the lawyers, the technicians, and informed people are the representatives of management, and they are at a disadvantage because of that fact. I think that is not as true as it was 5, 10, or 15 years ago. But it still holds.

Now, in order to understand what we are attempting to do, I would like to give a picture of certain developments in our own educational program.

Last year it was estimated that over 10,000 people were in CIO institutes. You are going to see a movie which is an example of one.