Mr. STRICKER. That would be entirely possible, in my opinion. Mr. GWINN. I was thinking while you were discussing this, Mr. Chairman, that if you, for instance, had not come forward to give this testimony of your experience in the class, so far as this congressional committee is concerned we would have known absolutely nothing except the statements of the organized groups, including college professors, that Michigan was the ideal set-up of the example that should induce the Congress to start with appropriations, on an appropriation program to support this kind of education and I think, Mr. Chairman, that that illustrates generally the position the committees of Congress are in—namely, it is absolutely impossible to get the facts. It is not set up to get the facts, it has no organization to get the facts, no counsel to bring them out, no investigators, generally speaking. It is, therefore, absolutely dependent upon the private citizens who are out practicing freedom and know nothing about what is going on down here to volunteer and come forward.

Mr. STRICKER. I would like to say this, Congressman, that none of us, even those who were supposed to be familiar with this type of thing, had any idea that this was going on until I stumbled into this class and when I decided to enroll it was not because I was trying to find out if they were doing something like this. I thought it would be a nice class to attend in order to study how they were presenting the subject. It was not with the idea that I wanted to uncover something; it was entirely a fluke that we stumbled into this thing and then found out really what it was.

Mr. GWINN. I have been informed that the Senate committee passed a similar bill like this yesterday or the day before.

Mr. STRICKER. That is what I have just heard.

Mr. GWINN. Did you testify before that committee?

Mr. STRICKER. No; because on the Senate side the hearings were closed in February and I only had this experience starting in April and it was impossible to appear before the Senate committee because the hearings had already been closed.

Mr. GWINN. Well, if the experience in the Senate and the experience here is the same, you get the testimony of organized groups and then you look around for the free citizens of America to come forward to offer testimony. You ask the defendant, so to speak, to present his case and the defendant is not present. So congressional committees are likely to be in a position of rendering a judgment for plaintiff becouse the defendant defaults.

Have you taken any position on any of these other educational appropriations in the country?

Mr. STRICKER. No. This was entirely the result of this personal experience. I have never appeared here before and it was entirely the outgrowth of this personal experience that I had.

Mr. GWINN. How do you think the labor education should be carried on?

Mr. STRICKER. Well, my own personal opinion is that education for people who work with their hands is no different from education for any other kind of workers; we are all workers. Every time I hear the words "workers' education" it does something to me inside, because that implies that there is some kind of class belief that somebody does work and the rest of us don't.

We all work. Education is education. I think if you are going to teach economics you should use the same method of teaching economics that any recognized school adopts. In this particular class I attended, the instructor put percentages on the blackboard. I am sure there were members of that class who don't know arithmetic. Well, to discuss the economic report of President Truman with people who don't know arithmetic and to give a biased slant to the report cannot be education. If anybody really wants to teach these people something they ought to teach them how to count, they ought to teach them how to read, they ought to teach them some of the history of this country, we ought to teach them about the Constitution.

I think we shouldn't have this sort of thing where we take the point of view of a particular group, when you are teaching people who don't have any qualifications on the things that should go before.

Mr. GWINN. Assuming that you got away from the class feature of this and we had classes on parliamentary procedure and union organization, how they function, how they vote, so as to teach men how to assume leadership in labor organizations, wouldn't that be a good thing?

Mr. STRICKER. Oh, sure. I have no objection to that, I have no objection to any kind of objective teaching and, as I understand, the regular adult-education courses of the university provide that type of teaching for the general public and, of course, workers are welcome there as well as anyone else.

Mr. GWINN. Do you think it ought to be on a local or State level? Mr. STRICKER. I really haven't given it much thought, Congressman. I am not qualified as an educator to attempt to tell you at what level it should be. I have very definite ideas as to course content and oppose this idea of segregating a certain group of people and treating them as a different kind of citizen than the rest of us.

Mr. GWINN. I think that is all.

Mr. McCOWEN. Congressman Lesinski?

Mr. LESINSKI. Mr. Stricker, as a Detroiter, an employee of General Motors, you had a reason to attend this class in the Rackham Building. You actually wanted to find out what type of teaching they are bringing out as far as labor education is concerned.

Mr. STRICKER. That is right.

Mr. LESINSKI. Isn't that what you went there for?

Mr. STRICKER. That is right; yes sir.

Mr. LESINSKI. I notice you got a generous amount of these booklets. I agree with the gentleman that I personally have no use for Communists, but isn't it a fact that the Rackham Institute has been endowed by the Rackham estate, to the University of Michigan

Mr. STRICKER. Yes.

Mr. LESINSKI. And not by public funds. Funds were furnished to the university for all of the people. The buildings are on Woodward and Warren Avenues, right next to the Art Institute.

Mr. STRICKER. That is right. It is a public building, though.
Mr. LESINSKI. It is a public building?

Mr. STRICKER. Yes.

Mr. LESINSKI. But it was not paid for by taxpayers' money. It is money given to the university for the education of the public? Mr. STRICKER. That is right.

Mr. LESINSKI. Now, in your statement, when presenting those books, you led me to believe that that is the type of education the University of Michigan is sponsoring. Did the gentleman attend a class at the Rackham Building or did the gentleman attend one of the classes of the University of Michigan?

Mr. STRICKER. I registered for the University of Michigan. I filled out an application form to attend the course at the University of Michigan and paid my money to the university, not to the UAW. If the course had been a UAW lecture course as such I would not have attended because I would not have felt I belonged there.

Mr. LESINSKI. Doesn't the gentleman believe that labor has the same right to education in extension courses as farmers or that your corporation gives to its own employes.

Mr. STRICKER. Why, for example, I have no objection to labor or anybody else having any kind of education that they want to have if it isn't with public funds. I think they can teach anything they want. If it is to be a public course and it is a course that anyone of the public can pay a registration fee for, then I think it shouldn't be a course which is slanted in a particular way.

Mr. LESINSKI. Now, the gentleman has told us something about the Brookwood College-or Mr. Schwabe did-about the Brookwood College. Well, the Brookwood Institute or Labor College has been closed over 10 years ago.

Mr. STRICKER. That is right.

Mr. LESINSKI. On account of lack of funds. It has never had public funds at any time.

Mr. STRICKER. No. That is right.

Mr LESINSKI. I was just going to call Mr. Schwabe's attention to that.

Mr. SCHWABE. Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask Mr. Lesinski if he knows how it happens to have been closed?

Mr. LESINSKI. Because of lack of funds.

Mr. SCHWABE. Is that the only reason?

Mr. LESINSKI. That is the only reason and that is 10 years ago. Now, Mr. Stricker, being a Michiganian myself, I think that you have placed a very dark smudge on the University of Michigan. I think, Mr. Chairman, to clear the situation we ought to have Mr. Leonard or Elder, director of that particular educational course, to testify. I think it is no more than fair.

The gentleman accuses the educational system of the University of Michigan, that it is teaching communism, which I don't believe in myself, and I feel that there should be an explanation made by those who are in charge of this particular course. I think we will get further with that type of testimony and find out exactly what is happening in this particular course in the Rackham Institute.

I think that is all, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. McCOWEN. Mr. Madden?

Mr. MADDEN. I didn't hear all your statement, Mr. Stricker. When did you first start as a student at this school?

Mr. STRICKER. That was the 1st of April of this year.

Mr. MADDEN. Of this year?

Mr. STRICKER. Yes, sir.

Mr. MADDEN. How did you first happen to get the thought of attending the school?

Mr. STRICKER. Frankly, you see, we have the problem in our section, which is the Industrial Economic Section, of trying to explain economics as far as possible in simple ways and I was interested in seeing how this course would present simple economic facts to a group of people who had not had too much basic training and that it would be instructive and I heard about the course by a public announcement and enrolled on the 1st of April.

Mr. MADDEN. You matriculated at the University of Michigan? Mr. STRICKER. Not at Ann Arbor, but in Detroit, in this Rackham Building which Congressman Lesinski has referred to.

Mr. MADDEN. Which is part of the university?

Mr. STRICKER. That is right.

Mr. MADDEN. How many classes did you attend?

Mr. STRICKER. I attended two.

Mr. MADDEN. Were there any other classes held pertaining to this same subject?

Mr. STRICKER. I couldn't answer that. I don't know.

Mr. MADDEN. Did you just attend classes that were taught by this professor named Jacobs?

Mr. STRICKER. Well, I attended the course which I enrolled for. I enrolled for this course of six lectures and Mr. Jacobs taught the six lectures. I attended two of the six. That was one particular course for which a registration fee of a dollar and a half was charged and I, of course, did not attend other classes that may have been going on which were not part of the course that I enrolled in and paid my registration fee for.

Mr. MADDEN. Mr. Jacobs was the teacher that you had?

Mr. STRICKER. That is right.

Mr. MADDEN. Do you know whether or not the university supervises or conducts any classes wherein supervisors or representatives of management are teachers?

Mr. STRICKER. I wouldn't know.

Mr. MADDEN. Did you investigate that?

Mr. STRICKER. No. The only thing that I did was to get this bulletin and, as I pointed out, it says that they have various types of instructors. It says that some of them are college or other public-school teachers and others are experienced union members.

All have union backgrounds or practical experience, that enable them to fit into the program.

That was the only investigation I made, was to get their own bulletin.

Mr. MADDEN. You did not make any further investigation outside of Mr. Jacobs' class?

Mr. STRICKER. No.

Mr. MADDEN. Did you after you learned what Mr. Jacobs was doing there present a complaint to the University of Michigan?

Mr. STRICKER. No complaint whatever to the university; no, sir. Mr. MADDEN. Why not?

Mr. STRICKER. Frankly, because we made a complaint to the Governor.

Mr. MADDEN. To whom?

Mr. STRICKER. We made a complaint to the Governor of the State. Mr. MADDEN. What did the Governor do then?

Mr. STRICKER. Right now the Governor has it under advisement. Mr. MADDEN. How long ago has it been since you made the complaint?

Mr. STRICKER. Within the last 3 weeks.

Mr. MADDEN. When did you attend these classes?

Mr. STRICKER. The 1st of April.

Mr. MADDEN. And at the time did anybody outside of yourself urge or request you to matriculate or to attend these classes?

Mr. STRICKER. No.

Mr. MADDEN. How?

Mr. STRICKER. No, sir.

Mr. MADDEN. Was this complaint that you made to the Governor a formal written complaint?

Mr. STRICKER. No, sir. It was a personal visit.

Mr. MADDEN. You haven't made any-the General Motors have not made any formal complaint to either the University or the Governor? Mr. STRICKER. No. That is right.

Mr. MADDEN. Well, don't you think if the situation is as you narrated here to this committee, that Mr. Jacobs is using the University of Michigan as an avenue to teach what you say he is teaching, don't you think there should have been some kind of a formal complaint presented to the university?

Mr. STRICKER. We brought it to the attention of the Governor and we felt that was sufficient.

Mr. MADDEN. You said there was no formal complaint?

Mr. STRICKER. No; we didn't write it out.

Mr. MADDEN. Why?

Mr. STRICKER. We didn't write him a letter.

Mr. MADDEN. Why not?

Mr. STRICKER. I don't know. We decided the place to do it would be here and I am here to make a full presentation of the facts.

Mr. MADDEN. You made a formal complaint before this committee but you did not see fit to make a formal complaint to the Governor or the University?

Mr. STRICKER. That is right.

Mr. MADDEN. Don't you think that if the University of Michigan countenanced teachings such as you have developed before this committee that it was worthy of a formal complaint against the university?

Mr. STRICKER. Frankly, we felt advising the Governor was the equivalent of that, Congressman. I mean it is a State institution and we advised the Governor, discussed it with him the same as we are discussing it with the members of this committee.

Mr. MADDEN. Have you heard from the Governor since then?

Mr. STRICKER. No. The Governor is aware of it. The Governor has been away.

Mr. MADDEN. Would the General Motors go on record and you, representing General Motors, go on record as charging that the University of Michigan is fathering or sponsoring the books of people such as you read to this committee?

Mr. STRICKER. All I can do is to say what I saw. I am perfectly willing-in fact, I am under oath saying what happened and what I saw. Now, I cannot talk about the university because I don't know