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RURAL DEVELOPMENT, AGRICULTURE, AND
SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE
COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS
ONE HUNDREDTH CONGRESS
SUBCOMMITTEE ON RURAL DEVELOPMENT, AGRICULTURE, AND
JAMIE L. WHITTEN, Mississippi, Chairman
VIRGINIA SMITH, Nebraska
JOHN T. MYERS, Indiana
JOE SKEEN, New Mexico
VIN WEBER, Minnesota
ROBERT B. FOSTER and TIMOTHY K. SANDERS, Staff Assistants
Office of the Secretary
Printed for the use of the Committee on Appropriations
U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
WASHINGTON : 1988
For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, Congressional Sales Office
U.S. Government Printing Office, Washington, DC 20402
COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS
JAMIE L. WHITTEN, Mississippi, Chairman EDWARD P. BOLAND, Massachusetts
SILVIO O. CONTE, Massachusetts WILLIAM H. NATCHER, Kentucky
JOSEPH M. McDADE, Pennsylvania NEAL SMITH, Iowa
JOHN T. MYERS, Indiana SIDNEY R. YATES, Illinois
CLARENCE E. MILLER, Ohio DAVID R. OBEY, Wisconsin
LAWRENCE COUGHLIN, Pennsylvania EDWARD R. ROYBAL, California
W. BILL YOUNG, Florida LOUIS STOKES, Ohio
JACK F. KEMP, New York TOM BEVILL, Alabama
RALPH REGULA, Ohio BILL CHAPPELL, JR., Florida
VIRGINIA SMITH, Nebraska BILL ALEXANDER, Arkansas
CARL D. PURSELL, Michigan JOHN P. MURTHA, Pennsylvania
MICKEY EDWARDS, Oklahoma BOB TRAXLER, Michigan
BOB LIVINGSTON, Louisiana JOSEPH D. EARLY, Massachusetts
BILL GREEN, New York CHARLES WILSON, Texas
JERRY LEWIS, California LINDY (MRS. HALE) BOGGS, Louisiana JOHN EDWARD PORTER, Illinois NORMAN D. DICKS, Washington
HAROLD ROGERS, Kentucky MATTHEW F. McHUGH, New York
JOE SKEEN, New Mexico WILLIAM LEHMAN, Florida
FRANK R. WOLF, Virginia MARTIN OLAV SABO, Minnesota
BILL LOWERY, California JULIAN C. DIXON, California
VIN WEBER, Minnesota
TOM DELAY, Texas
FREDERICK G. MOHRMAN, Clerk and Staff Director
RURAL DEVELOPMENT, AGRICULTURE, AND RELATED AGENCIES APPROPRIATIONS FOR 1989
FRIDAY, MARCH 11, 1988.
USDA OFFICE OF THE SECRETARY
WITNESSES JOHN J. FRANKE, JR., ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION LARRY WILSON, JR., DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF FINANCE AND MANAGEMENT CONSTANCE D. GILLAM, BUDGET OFFICER, OFFICE OF FINANCE AND
MANAGEMENT STEPHEN B. DEWHURST, BUDGET OFFICER, DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE
We have with us today Mr. John J. Franke, Jr., Assistant Secretary for Administration, and his associates. Since this is Mr. Wilson's first appearance before the Committee, we will include his biographical sketch in the record at this time. [The information follows:
BIOGRAPHY OF LARRY WILSON, JR. Larry Wilson became the Director of the Office of Finance and Management on January 6, 1988. In this capacity, he is the Department's Chief Financial Officer and Comptroller of the Working Capital Fund.
Prior to this appointment, he had served as Deputy Director of the Office of Finance and Management since 1982. Before coming to USDA, he was Vice President of Administration and Finance at the University of the District of Columbia and at Virginia State University. He also worked in the private sector as a comptroller and a financial analyst.
A North Carolina native, Wilson holds a B.S. in accounting from North Carolina Central University, an M.B.A. from St. John's University and an Ed.D. in Administration from Virginia Polytechnic Institute. He received USDA's Distinguished Service Award in 1984.
Mr. WHITTEN. Indeed, we're glad to have you. We'll be glad to have you present your case as you see fit.
Mr. FRANKE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. WHITTEN. Mrs. Smith and I, we work while others buzz around, you'll notice.
Mr. FRANKE. I understand. [Laughter.]
I appreciate that, Mr. Chairman. I think you know Mr. Larry Wilson, who is our Director of the Office of Finance and Management. Ms. Connie Gillam is our Budget Officer for Departmental Administration, and I think you probably have met Mr. Dewhurst.
Mr. WHITTEN. He's the designated hitter.
I'm truly pleased again to appear and discuss the activities for our 1989 budget. We're going to be covering several appropriations, and I'll summarize, if that's all right, Mr. Chairman, the Office of the Secretary, Departmental Administration, GSA Rental Payments and Building Operations, Advisory Committees, Hazardous Waste Management, and the services provided to the USDA agencies through the Working Capital Fund.
I would like to leave additional handouts for the record.
Mr. WHITTEN. I'd be glad to have you present your case. A whole lot of things have happened this year, and we haven't been too happy about the way many things have been handled. We have spent an especially large amount of time trying to see where the proposals originate. Those thoughts being about the way the Department is being run. For that reason, I suggest that you cover whatever you wish to rather fully.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Franke appears on pages 101 through 117. The notes appear on pages 118 through 203.] Mr. FRANKE. Thank you, sir. I appreciate it.
OFFICE OF THE SECRETARY As you know, there's no single appropriation for the Office of the Secretary-and I'll speak to these, if it's all right, one budget at a time. The funding is for the salaries and expenses of those 85 staffyears. They, as you know, provide policy oversight for the Department. Their expenses are contained in 11 different appropriations. Ten of these are for Under and Assistant Secretaries.
The Immediate Office of the Secretary is the only one that covers over five staff-years. These detailed estimates of future costs don't leave a whole lot of margin for error. I'd like to ask you to consider granting the Secretary a consolidated appropriation. That's one where we would speak to each office within one bottom line figure, as opposed to having 11 separate appropriations. I've mentioned this before, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. It's more of an administrative matter since we do break down each Assistant and Under Secretary by function, by office, and by staff. It would make our job a bit easier to do this. We believe the necessary oversight by the committee could still occur if we could once more have a consolidated budget.
This would also allow the Secretary flexibility to assign funds back and forth.
INTENT OF CONGRESS
Mr. WHITTEN. I agree with that, provided it's operated in line with what the Congress intends. You know, you propose, and Congress disposes.
Mr. FRANKE. Yes, sir.
Mr. WHITTEN. When the Congress indicates what money is to be used for, there's a law that says you must spend the money for the purposes for which it was appropriated.
This year they come here with money requested for the Soil Conservation Service but you don't need a specialist to give technical advice if you cut out the basic program. ACP is left out. So I don't see how you'll justify that.
And we've had one or two people here that have had no experience whatsoever in what they were trying to supervise. That gives you carte blanche to use the money to suit yourself. You might have half a dozen of those folks who don't know anything about what they're trying to do.
So if your record was good about carrying out the intent of Congress, which is what the law contemplates and says you must do, we'd go along with you. But yesterday we found out that they were finally beginning to sell commodities owned by the Commodity Credit Corporation. It's an election year, and CCC has started really selling this year. Now, we urged you to do that in 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987, and you are finally doing it in an election year. So you can see, your record is not such that would justify our turning the money over to you to handle as you want to.
Do you see the point?
Mr. WHITTEN. Yesterday in another subcommittee, it developed that the Administration wanted to sell Elk Hills Oil Reserve. Forty years ago I stopped that. In the record there yesterday, in the adjoining room, it showed that they want to sell it because the Government wants to get out of it. What they want to do is sell something that made $10 billion profit in ten years. They want to sell it for $3.5 billion when on the face of it, they expect to make $15 billion for this next period of time, until 2010.
They want us to sell our reserve so they can get oil out of it and pour it into another hole in the ground. If we stop that there'll be more than enough money to take care of everything you read in the paper today that the budget director wants us to do.
Now, what justification, what record do you have that will prove to us that you could handle it well if we turned it all over to you? Where have you shown that we could trust you to handle it well?
We realize that you've got lots of problems. We've got lots of problems on our side. But when we write it, and the law says you've got to spend the money as we wrote it, and you don't do it, what should we do? You might go ahead. And if you've got a good case, tell it. This is the time and place to do so. Mr. FRANKE. And I understand that full well, Mr. Chairman.
OSEC FY 1989 REQUEST The appropriation request for the Office of the Secretary in fiscal year 1989 for all activities totals $5.998 million. This is an increase of $288,000 above the current estimate for fiscal year 1988. The entire increase we're requesting is to annualize our pay cost increase from fiscal year 1988.
While there is a realignment of resources within the Office, there is no net increase associated with that realignment. The data we provided, and will continue to provide, will identify resources for the Deputy Secretary and each, Under and Assistant Secretary, in individual budget line items.