Senator ASHURST. Quite true, and if I were going to learn good manners I would never go to Senator Moses for instruction. Senator MOSES. You might learn, however. The CHAIRMAN. The witness may resume the chair. TESTIMONY OF MISS ROXY STINSON, COLUMBUS, OHIO-Resumed. (The witness was heretofore sworn by the chairman.) The CHAIRMAN. You may proceed with your questions, Senator Wheeler. Senator WHEELER. Miss Stinson, I think that one of the last things that was asked you on yesterday, or one of the last things that was called to your attention on yesterday, was with reference to the K Street residence here in Washington. Miss STINSON. Yes, sir. Senator WHEELER. And you were asked if you knew anything about the K Street residence? Miss STINSON. Yes, sir. Senator WHEELER. As I understand you, you have never visited the K Street residence? Miss STINSON. I have never visited Washington except one day in my life, several years ago. I was here during the day on a return trip from Virginia, where I visited my uncle. I was here a few hours, and went out and looked at the Capitol, and took the next train for home. That has been many years ago, before I was married. I have never been in Washington since until yesterday. Senator WHEELER. What, if anything, do you know with reference to the K Street residence? Miss STINSON. I would rather not answer that. Senator WHEELER. What was that answer? Miss STINSON. I would rather not answer that question. Senator MOSES. Well, the witness said last night she knew about it, so why shouldn't she say now? Senator WHEELER. That is for the committee to say. Miss STINSON. I consider it purely personal, and would rather not answer at all. Senator JONES of Washington. Had it anything to do with the Attorney General? Miss STINSON. It is purely personal. Yes; I do not think it would concern him alone, at least under the circumstances. Senator JONES of Washington. It is information given to you by Mr. Smith, do you mean? Miss STINSON. Yes, sir. Senator JONES of Washington. And not by the Attorney General? Miss STINSON. No, sir. It is purely personal and of absolutely no consequence to this committee, or I would so consider it. Senator WHEELER. Well, I will ask you this: You know that Mr. Smith and the Attorney General met at the K Street house on a number of occasions? Miss STINSON. I don't mind saying that. Senator ASHURST. Will you just repeat that answer? Miss STINSON. I said I did not mind saying that. Or so I was told by Mr. Smith. The CHAIRMAN. There has been mention of a K Street house and an H Street house. Miss STINSON. Yes, sir; but they are two separate places. Senator MOSES. Yes; I understand that they are two different places. Senator WHEELER. This is the K Street house? Miss STINSON. Yes, sir. Senator MOSES. Do you know the number of the house on K Street? Miss STINSON. No, sir; I never saw it in my life. Senator MOSES. Have you ever seen it? Miss STINSON. No, sir. Senator MOSES. Was it described to you as a green house? Miss STINSON. Yes, sir. Senator MOSES. Do you know who occupied it permanently or regularly? Miss STINSON. No, sir. I think it was one of Mr. McLean's houses, wasn't it? I am not sure about that. I would not care for that to be taken as definite. Senator ASHURST. Madam, in asking you questions relating to this so-called green-stone house I refer only to Mr. Daugherty and Mr. Smith and to no other person whatsoever. Miss STINSON. Yes, sir. Senator ASHURST. And I expect that your answers, if any, will relate only to these two persons. Miss STINSON. Yes, sir. Senator ASHURST. Do you understand me now? Miss STINSON. Yes, sir. Senator ASHURST. Now, do you know, or have you been told, of the existence of a house on K Street supposed to be built of green limestone or sandstone? Miss STINSON. Yes, sir. Senator ASHURST. All right. What did Mr. Smith ever tell you. if anything, concerning Mr. Daugherty's visits to that house? Miss STINSON. All that would interest you would be Senator ASHURST (interposing). I beg pardon, but I did not hear you. Miss STINSON. That they had conferences in this house. Miss STINSON. Well, he referred to different Senators, and said they had conferences with important people, on important matters, in this house. But it is of no significance at all. Senator ASHURST. Did Mr. Smith ever tell you he had a conference with Mr. Daugherty at that house? Miss STINSON. Yes; that they both have had conferences there. Senator ASHURST. By "they both" whom do you mean? Miss STINSON. Mr. Daugherty and Mr. Smith, and sometimes appointments made by Mr. Smith for Mr. Daugherty. Senator ASHURST. Do you know for what purpose Miss STINSON. No, sir. Senator ASHURST (continuing). One moment. You do not know for what purpose the conferences were held in that house by Mr. Smith and Mr. Daugherty! Miss STINSON. No, sir. Senator ASHURST. Did Mr. Smith ever tell you for what purpose he met Mr. Daugherty there? Miss STINSON. Why, because they could meet there privately, and they could meet people without having audiences, without being disturbed by other people I mean, not audiences necessarily; that would not express it very well; but so they would not be disturbed. Senator ASHURST. Did Mr. Smith ever tell you that persons soliciting appointments from the Department of Justice met Mr. Daugherty there? Miss STINSON. Oh, yes. Senator Moses. Or other departments? Miss STINSON. Well, you see they were sought after so much for different things. You asked me a question specifying about the Department of Justice and I said yes, but they mentioned things all the way through about being solicited for all things. That did not mean necessarily just the Department of Justice. The CHAIRMAN. They did not mention the subjects they were solicited about, did they? Miss STINSON. No, sir; I don't remember that he did. Senator MOSES. But people would solicit appointments with the Department of Justice and other departments, is that it? Miss STINSON. Yes, sir. That was the reason for going where they would be undisturbed. Senator MOSES. And did people seeking such appointments come there to see them? Miss STINSON. Yes, sir. Senator MOSES. Did he tell you that people who came soliciting such appointments received such appointments? Miss STINSON. No; that would be afterwards, and I would not know. Senator ASHURST. Did you ever hear Mr. Smith speak of a gentleman called Col. James G. Darden? Miss STINSON. I have met Mr. Darden. Senator ASHURST. Where? Miss STINSON. At the shack. Senator ASHURST. That is located about 15 miles from Washington Court House, Ohio? Miss STINSON. Yes, sir. Senator ASHURST. When did you meet Mr. Darden at the shack? Miss STINSON. I could not give you the date. It was after the inauguration of President Harding, in the spring, along in there, I would not say, but I could not tell you exactly. Senator ASHURST. Would you say that it was along in the spring of 1921, after the inauguration? Miss STINSON. Yes, sir. Senator ASHURST. Do you know for what purpose Mr. Darden went to the shack? Miss STINSON. You are bringing up something now I had forgotten about. Senator ASHURST. You say you have forgotten about it? Miss STINSON. Yes; I had forgotten about it entirely. The CHAIRMAN. She said she had forgotten all about it. Senator WHEELER. Yes; until you called her attention to it, Senator Ashurst. Senator ASHURST. All right. I understand now that it had escaped your memory until I refreshed it by the question I asked you. Miss STINSON. Yes, sir. Senator ASHURST. Do you know whether Mr. Darden came to the shack to see Attorney General Daugherty? Miss STINSON. Yes, sir. Senator ASHURST. Do you know about what he came to see Attorney General Daugherty? Miss STINSON. I should know, I have been told. Senator ASHURST. Well, who told you? Miss STINSON. Mr. Smith. Senator ASHURST. And what did he tell you? Miss STINSON. Well now, just a minute. [After a pause, witness evidently trying to recall.] I can tell you subsequently, better than I can in detail just now, because my memory escapes me on that. I had not even remembered it, there are so many things that have passed there. Senator ASHURST. You say Mr. Darden, or Colonel Darden, you met at the shack in 1921? Miss STINSON. Yes, sir; I met him there. Senator ASHURST. And you say he came there to see Attorney General Daugherty? Miss STINSON. Yes, sir. Senator ASHURST. Were you present at any of the conversations? Miss STINSON. Not at any official conversations, not at anything about business. Senator ASHURST. You saw him there? Miss STINSON. Yes, sir. Senator ASHURST. Did you see him talking to Attorney General Daugherty? Miss STINSON. Mr. Daugherty-how I happened to be there, and how I happened to meet Colonel Darden at the shack, was that I was driving to the shack for Mr. Smith, and he was still there. Senator WHEELER. Who is "he?" Miss STINSON. Colonel Darden. Senator ASHURST. Go ahead. Miss STINSON. Mr. Daugherty had gone to Columbus, was not present at that moment, because I only stopped to call for Mr. Smith to take him back to Washington Court House, where we were going. Senator ASHURST. Well, what, if anything, did Mr. Smith ever tell you was the subject of the conversations, if any, between Attorney General Daugherty and Mr. Darden? Miss STINSON. Well, I do not know, but they had some things that they were considering. Senator ASHURST. Do you know what those things were? Miss STINSON. Mr. Darden was-well, they were quite intimate, all of them were very close friends. Senator ASHURST. By "all of them" whom do you mean? Miss STINSON. Mr. Daugherty, Colonel Darden-they were associated with him more or less at the first, but for some reason or other Mr. Darden-well, personally I did not care for Mr. Darden myself, and what brought this all out was, that Mr. Darden did not measure up, there was something wrong at some place. Senator ASHURST. Did not measure up to what? Miss STINSON. Well, I do not know. Senator MOSES. And with whom? Senator ASHURST. Colonel Darden did not measure up with what or to whom? Miss STINSON. With them, because they did drop Mr. Darden. Senator ASHURST. In what business were they engaged? What was it to which he did not measure up? Miss STINSON. Well, I just can't recall. I know it was told to me, but I just can't recall it. I might be able later on to recall it by thinking about it. I do not mean by being prompted, but by thinking of it. I had forgotten entirely that Colonel Darden was in the world. Senator ASHURST. Very well, I will defer this line of inquiry. Miss STINSON. Mr. Todd-well, they had a party there, and there were several people. Senator JONES of Washington. When you got there? Miss STINSON. I did not go in the shack. I went there to get Mr. Smith. Senator JONES of Washington. Who did you see? Miss STINSON. Who I saw? Senator JONES of Washington. Who do you know was there? Senator WHEELER. She has already said that she saw Mr. Smith. Miss STINSON. Yes; I saw Mr. Smith. Senator JONES of Washington. Who all was there? Miss STINSON. Mr. Todd had been there. Whether he was there at that minute or out fishing or whatever they did for recreation, I do not know. Mr. Daugherty had been there. Senator JONES of Washington. Who else? Miss STINSON. Who else? I don't know. Senator JONES of Washington. Mr. Darden had been there, I understood you to say? Miss STINSON. Yes, sir. Senator JONES of Washington. And Mr. Smith? Miss STINSON. Mr. Mal had been there; but I do not suppose he was there then, because it was daytime and banking hours. Senator JONES of Washington. You do not remember distinctly who all you saw when you went to get Mr. Smith? Miss STINSON. I told you exactly; Mr. Darden Senator JONES of Washington (interposing). Was that all? Senator JONES of Washington. Those were the only two you saw? Senator JONES of Washington. And the knowledge that you have as to what took place there you got from Mr. Smith? Miss STINSON. Yes, sir. Senator WHEELER. Mr. Smith was one of Mr. Daugherty's partners, was he not? Senator MOSES. Oh, no. |