Mr. MOORE, I believe that Governor Lowe of American Samoa has presented a memorandum to this committee in which he points out the total income of the employees of the Government at about $700 annually. They are the only working people, that is, the only people who are gainfully employed, other than those people working for our company. Our figures on the income of our employees for the calendar year 1955, I think, will come out pretty close to $450 per employee annually.

Now, the reason for the difference, since they are both on the same plan and the same scale of wages, is the shorter number of days that our people work, as compared to the number of days that the Government people work. They work a shorter period of time because of the lack of supply of fish.

Our operations down there are small. We do not expect them to be otherwise, in comparison to our operations here in the States. I mentioned in a memorandum before that our production was approximately 1 percent of our total volume.

Mr. ROOSEVELT. I want to ask a question on that. If I was interested as a worker in the cannery factory on the west coast, I think, looking at this problem, I would want to be awfully sure I was not building up here a low-wage scale competitive operation which in time would ruin the position of the American worker on the west coast, in the factory. Therefore, I want to stress two things here. I would try to get it from the figures that you will submit, and one is that the actual cost of operation quite exclusive of the labor part of it, and the other things, as far as transportation of necessary materials to Samoa, and transporting the finished product back to the coast, would necessitate and I want to ask you the specific question-is it your opinion that this could never be a much larger operation than it is today, and that that would be one factor why it could not grow much larger than it is today?

Secondly, the basic raw-materials supply is such that it probably, at least on the facts you have now, would not support a much larger operation than it is today. Therefore, it is a 1 percent total volume that you have now indicated this operation performs, it would not be substantially increased, and therefore, the fears of any low-wage competitive operations being installed here on a large basis would be largely unfounded.

Mr. MOORE. That is true, Mr. Roosevelt. I am going to take the last part of your question there first. I would like to correct a statement made in this memorandum to you which at one time was correct. I would like to point out that there has been an increase, but still, nevertheless, a very small percentage, and I will read from this statement here.

Reference is made to our memorandum on operations of Van Camp Sea Food Co., Inc., in American Samoa, submitted to Congressman Roosevelt under a cover letter dated January 23, 1956.

On page 4 in the second paragraph, a statement is made that Van Camp's operations in American Samoa are small and will unquestionably remain so. We further stated that the total production at Samoa was approximately 1 percent of the total volume produced by its plants in California. A more accurate determination of the volume of fish processed by the Samoan plant is as follows: At the close of our fiscal year May 31, 1955, the last accounting of a fullyear operation, the total production of the Samoa plant was 1.8 percent of the total produced by Van Camp's stateside plants. For the 2-year period of our

Samoan operation, January 1954, through January 31, 1956, the total production was 32 percent of the total production of Van Camp's stateside plants for the same period.

Now what total percentage it may arrive at is uncertain, but it will never be a percentage of any consequence. I do not know what in your mind constitutes an excessive percentage, or a large percentage, but in comparison to the total production of the stateside industries, or stateside plants, the Samoan operation will unquestionably remain small.

Mr. ROOSEVELT. Reference has been made to this memorandum which I have in my hand, and I would like to introduce it in the record, if I may, in order that everything be properly in the record. That is, following the testimony of Mr. Moore.

Mr. ELLIOTT. Without objection, the memorandum referred to by Mr. Roosevelt will become a part of the record following the testimony of Mr. Moore.

Mr. ROOSEVELT. You would have no objection if we could find some way and I do not know whether it is legislatively possible-to state that any provision which would be made as suggested by the proposed legislation should be applicable only as long as the total output of this particular plant was less than 10 percent of the company's total operation.

Mr. MOORE. I am going to go in a round-about way on this, in answering your question, Mr. Roosevelt. I would say, in the first place, it is a difficult thing to determine what that percentage may be. It depends on your period of comparison. The nature of our business has its peaks and valleys of operation, and there are peaks and valleys of operation in the States, for example. They may be entirely different from the peaks and valleys of the Samoan operation. There may be times when the Samoan operation is at its peak of volume, and our own Stateside operations are at a lower volume, or in the lower ebb of its volume.

Mr. ROOSEVELT. I mean an overall period.

Mr. MOORE. I think it has to be done over a lengthy period of time, and I do not think it can be necessarily confined to 1 year's operation, because there are years that are off-years, and there are years that are productive years.

Mr. ROOSEVELT. But it is true, is it not, that there is no differentiation in the can of tuna manufactured in Samoa and one on the west coast when it is sold or retailed in the markets? I do not know whether I am eating a Samoan tuna or a west-coast product.

Mr. MOORE. There is absolutely no difference in the two products from all outward appearance, and from all inward appearances, for that matter.

Mr. ROOSEVELT. You said that you could not expect any of us to support legislation if we had any feeling that at some point a very substantial amount of that product sold in the American market was being manufactured in American Samoa at the expense of the west coast people who were employed in your factories there at a much higher standard of wages. What I am trying to get at is that I want to make awfully sure that I understand from you that this is not going to be a substantial part of your operation, and the plans of your company and you and everybody else are such that they are not aimed at making this a substantial part of your operation.

Mr. MOORE. That is true, it is not going to be a substantial part of our operations.

Mr. ROOSEVELT. Thank you.

Mr. WARD. Your reasons for going into Samoa is strictly following the fish and looking for a new field of supply?

Mr. MOORE. That is right.

Mr. WARD. Is it your opinion then, in view of the additional expense and the distance involved, do you think that Samoa could ever affect the west coast fisheries, as far as cheap labor supply, or competition?

Mr. MOORE. I think not. I do not believe that any production from Samoa will affect the total volume of operations of our west coast plants.

I pointed out, Mr. Roosevelt, in my memorandum to you, that my company, the Van Camp Sea Food Co., does not contemplate making large profits in American Samoa. There may be some advantages gained on the one hand, but these advantages are definitely offset by additional expenses that we do not normally have stateside. The wages are not up to the minimum wage stateside, but I have pointed out that we have a plan in effect now that will increase those wages to the employee automatically, and we are hopeful that in this period of years that these increments will be forthcoming and the employee will become more proficient and will warrant this additional expense to the company.

Mr. ELLIOTT. When do these 2 cents per hour per year increments go into effect, Mr. Moore?

Mr. MOORE. They went into effect last October and they will continue.

Mr. ELLIOTT. Next October will be the next one, and your employees will get a 2 cent per hour raise?

Mr. MOORE. Yes, that will be the next one. That is the anniversary date for all employees who were with us as of October of 1955, and new employees will receive their increments on the anniversary date of their employment, that is, new employees that may come into the plant.

Mr. ELLIOTT. Do you have any assurance that you will be able to lease this plant at the end of 5 years. You have used up 2 years

now.

Mr. MOORE. Our lease agreement with the Government now, which is dated-and this is a new agreement-dated January 1, 1956, is for a period of 5 years and has 3 options of 5 years each for a total of 20 years.

Mr. ELLIOTT. At the end of each 5-year period, you have an option to renew for another 5 years if you desire, up to a total of 15 years? Mr. MOORE. A total of 20 years.

Mr. ROOSEVELT. I think that it might be helpful, because the Department of the Interior representative is here, if he came prepared with the actual agreement, for inclusion in the record.

Mr. MOORE. I have a copy of the lease with me, if you would like to have it.

Mr. ROOSEVELT. Either you can supply it or the Department of the Interior.

Mr. MOORE. Surely.

Mr. ELLIOTT. Let it go in the record at the point following the memorandum which Mr. Roosevelt offered a while ago.

Without objection, it will be included at that point.

Mr. MOORE. I apologize for the fact this is a copy or duplication of the original lease, but you will find it complete.

Mr. ELLIOTT. Gentlemen, is there objection to a recess now until 2 o'clock?

Mr. COLLINS. Mr. Chairman, may I interrupt for just a moment. I think that I can say what I would like to say.

My name is Linton Collins. We are presenting the lease, and I want to call particular attention to section 7, subhead 1, which provides that only United States citizens and nationals will be employed in the cannery, and related shore activities, except as approved in writing by the Governor, and no aliens or their dependents shall be allowed to enter American Samoa in connection with fishing operations relating to the cannery, without the permission in writing of the Governor.

The question was raised concerning the hiring of aliens. And may I also at this time present to you, which I am sure most of you have seen, the Committee Print No. 4, 84th Congress, of a Special Subcommittee on Territorial and Insular Affairs of the Committee on Interior and Insular Affairs of the House, pursuant to House Resolution 89 of the 83d Congress.

This gives a pretty good background of the American Samoan economic and political and historical situation, and particularly refers to the operations on page 6, I think it is-on page 12 of Mr. Harold Gatty, about whom some reference was made earlier in the morning.

I am sure that Congressman Aspinall, who conducted this hearing, would be very happy to give you any of the information that he may have concerning the entire economic situation there.

Mr. ROOSEVELT. Also, on page 13, I think, of that same report, there is a summation by Congressman Aspinall as to the effect of the wageand-hour law on the economy of the island; is that correct?

Mr. COLLINS. I was going to read that. He pointed out in connection with the bringing in of new industry into the island, speaking of the wage-and-hour law:

The act's minimum wage of 75 cents per hour is entirely out of proportion to the local wage scale in the South Pacific, and would upset the economic balance unless American Samoa could somehow be exempted from its provisions.

I think that is all, sir.

Mr. ELLIOTT. Does that mean that you will not have any more testimony?

Mr. COLLINS. Unless there are any questions that you would desire to ask of Mr. Moore. We will try to get, by Friday morning, the information that has been requested this morning, and present that to you, and if there is any other information we can get for you, we will certainly be happy to give it to you.

Mr. ELLIOTT. Thank you very much.

Now, Mr. Moore, have you concluded with your testimony?
Mr. MOORE. I believe so, Mr. Elliott.

If there are any questions

Mr. ELLIOTT. I am sure that we will have some questions. Would you rather come back at 2 o'clock or would you rather finish now? Perhaps we will finish now.

Mr. LANDRUM. I wanted to ask specifically about the manufactured cost of your Samoa product when it reaches the American market. As I understand you now, it is considerably more, in manufactured cost, than your American product. That accounts for your losing money, I take it.

Mr. MOORE. No; the cost of the finished product is approximately the same as the cost of our product developed here.

Mr. LANDRUM. By the time you get it here?

Mr. MOORE. By the time we get it here; yes. There is no particular advantage gained in the production costs of the Samoa product over the production cost of our stateside operation.

Mr. LANDRUM. Then, the effect of your operation there is to add industrial growth and a source of employment to the American Samoans.

Mr. MOORE. That is right, sir.

Mr. LANDRUM. That is all, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. COON. I have no questions, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. ROOSEVELT. I just have two brief questions. One is this: If I understand the quotation that Mr. Collins gave us concerning the lease, you are presently restricted to employing, except for the exceptions noted, American nationals. I would like to ask you specifically your position if the committee felt that it was necessary to have this legislation restricted to bona fide residents of Samoa, and to exclude any possibility of contracting labor under this exemption to go to the area to take part in the operation.

Mr. MOORE. There is no objection to that, Mr. Roosevelt.

Mr. COLLINS. May I interrupt, Mr. Roosevelt, that the only question would be the verbiage which would not preclude administrative personnel from the continental United States going out. He has mentioned there are 6 or 8 of them out there.

Mr. ROOSEVELT. I see. Secondly, and I want to phrase this to escape any effect of its being a threat, because I know you would imply no threat, but on page 6 of your memorandum to me, there is a statement that the closing of the cannery would have a deleterious effect upon the economy of American Samoa and would be a further discouragement to other industries which might go into these islands.

By implication, that means to me that if you cannot get this relief that you would feel that it would be impossible for you to continue the operation, and again I want to emphasize that that would have to have some substance behind it. In other words, what you have in essence said is that this is important to the economy there, and which I believe it is, and on the other hand, I have to be shown that without this relief it would not be possible for you to operate. I am speaking strictly from your point of view, that this has nothing to do with the social effect that might accrue to having out-of-line income come to this part of the population. But I, for one, would want-and I think the committee would want some information to back up the statement that you would not consider this possible of continuation unless the relief which you seek is granted.

Mr. MOORE. Are you asking that we give you a statement that says that unless we get this we will not continue?

Mr. ROOSEVELT. If the cost of your product as delivered to the American market today is approximately the same, which I think you answered when Mr. Landrum asked you the question, obviously