and a half million dollars of bonds for levee purposes. The last of them has been sold within the past 30 days for a million dollars. For the last 30 years we have never defaulted in the payment of principal or interest, and yet those bonds sold at 923. They were 4 per cent bonds, when heretofore we have sold 5 per cent bonds at par. The CHAIRMAN. What are the taxable resources of your county? Mr. PERCY. The assessed value of the district is about $22,000,000. We could not float a thousand dollars of bonds to-day, and we could not have floated that million dollars' worth except for the fact that it was thought the Government was going to aid in that work down there. We raise in those four counties a half a million dollars a year which we devote to levee purposes. Every treasury is empty. The credit of every levee board has reached its limit. Some districts in Louisiana last year did not raise a dollar to repair crevasses in their own levees, because they could not float a dollar's worth of bonds. This is not a question of conjecture; it is just a bare, horrid reality. Mr. TREADWAY. Are those levee boards private enterprises or municipal enterprises?

Mr. PERCY. They are governmental, created out of a certain number of counties.

Mr. TAYLOR. Authorized by the State?

Mr. PERCY. Yes, sir.

Mr. TREADWAY. Then there is a general taxation of the counties involved?

Mr. PERCY. Yes, sir.

Mr. TREADWAY. And instead of going into the county treasury it goes into the treasury of the board?

Mr. PERCY. Yes, sir.

Mr. TREADWAY. The assessment is laid upon the property itself? Mr. PERCY. Yes, sir. They tax everything for levee purposes. There is a privilege tax, land tax, railroad tax, ad valorem tax, and every conceivable kind of property is subject to a tax.

Mr. HUMPHREYS of Mississippi. There is a cotton tax and a tax on hay and on everything.

Mr. TAYLOR. Is not that the result of the judgment of the several localities as to the capacity of that section to contribute to this work?

Mr. PERCY. Well, that may be. Only one State gives State aid, and that is Louisiana. In the other levee districts the State simply permits these counties affected to organize themselves into levee districts and then grant them the privilege of taxing themselves. That is the extent of State aid. [Laughter.]

Mr. TAYLOR. And that is the result of the judgment of those localities as to what can be done?

Mr. PERCY. AS to what they can bear; yes, sir.

Mr. TREADWAY. I want to ask you a question in regard to the relationship between the levee board and the other authorities. What is the relation between those levee boards and this Mississippi River Commission?

Mr. PERCY. Those levee boards, through the funds which they raise by taxation, cooperate with the Mississippi River Commission. Mr. TREADWAY. That is Federal, as I understand it?

Mr. PERCY. Yes, sir; that is Federal. In the building and maintenance of these levees the Mississippi River Commission, out of the

funds allotted to them by Congress, says: "We are going to spend so much money in this district and so much money in that district, and with that money, through our engineers, we are going to do this piece of work and that piece of work, and you can do what you can about the work left over.'

And they cooperate with the last dollar that they can raise. There has never been any shirking. There has never been any limitation except the ability to raise money by taxation.

Mr. TREADWAY. What is that rate now; is it a fixed rate of taxation?

Mr. PERCY. It is different in each levee district.

Mr. TREADWAY. How many levee districts are there?

Mr. PERCY. There are about 24 districts.

Mr. TREADWAY. And they are absolutely independent in their action both as to taxation and as regards work, but they are all cooperative with the Mississippi River Commission?

Mr. PERCY. Yes; they solicit all the Government appropriations they can get for the commission and then fight among themselves as to how much each one shall get from the commission.

Mr. TREADWAY. But there is no arbitrary rate of taxation applicable to each levee district?

Mr. PERCY. No, sir. You see, you have six States interested there and they have different crops and different conditions. It is all a question as to how you can raise the greatest amount of taxes.

Mr. TREADWAY. For instance, say that the general taxation rate is 2 per cent. What percentage of that would go to the levee board on an average?

Mr. PERCY. I will just speak for my own district for illustration. We pay more than four times as much in levee taxes as we pay for every other tax-State, county, and Federal-put together. The bulk of taxation, the weight of it, is in levee building.

Mr. R. B. OLIVER. I can speak for two districts. The Arkansas district pays 4 per cent on the assessed valuation of the taxable wealth of that district. It is made subject to taxation. In Missouri we have a flat acreage tax, and we also have an ad valorem tax. In the St. Francis Levee district in Missouri we are paying a flat tax this year of 25 cents per acre, irrespective of the protection afforded. In addition to that we are paying a valuation tax of-how much is that, Mr. Reynolds?

Mr. REYNOLDS. Fifteen cents per acre, making 40 cents per acre in all.

Mr. TAYLOR. Do you pay a dollar for cotton tax?

Mr. PERCY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator, you say that none of the States except Louisiana has assisted in the building of levees?

Mr. PERCY. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Why have not the other States done so?

Mr. PERCY. Well, that is rather a difficult question. Take the State of Mississippi and the delta; only the delta is subject to the brunt of the overflow of the Mississippi River. The delta constitutes about 15 counties out of 79, and there are conditions there which absolutely distinguish it from the balance of the State. There is not very much commerce between the delta part and the hill section of the State; we buy what we need from other States. Ship what we sell to other

States. The balance of the State does not realize that they are under any obligation to try to care for the waters of the Nation, and they are willing for the delta to contribute what it chooses by any kind of onerous taxation, and all they have ever done for us is to give us the right to tax ourselves, and sometimes they have withheld that; they simply envy us when we are dry and pity us when we are flooded.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you a map showing these levee districts? Mr. PERCY. Yes, sir. There is a compilation made up, which I will hand to the chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. I would like to see a map of them.

Mr. PERCY. I have never seen a map showing all the names and the numbers of the different districts.

Mr. SWITZER. The names are shown on this map, but not the numbers.

Mr. HUMPHREY of Washington. The fact about it is that all the States have taken the position, with the exception of the State of Louisiana, that the locality that is benefited should bear the burden.

Mr. PERCY. They have taken the position that the burden should be borne by the Federal Government, and so far as they are concerned they are going to wash their hands of it.

Mr. HUMPHREY of Washington. The States have taken the position that they will not assist those who are not directly benefited. For instance, the State of Missouri wants the Pacific Coast States, that are not directly or indirectly benefited except as to commerce, to help bear the same expense and pay the same rates that they pay. On the Pacific coast, I will say to the Senator, we look upon this thing differently, and I have wondered why the States along the Mississippi did not take the same position.

Mr. PERCY. Well, they have simply not taken it and have never made any appropriations for levee purposes.

Mr. TAYLOR. Is not there a constitutional objection to a State engaging in such work? It is so in my State.

Mr. PERCY. There is an insuperable aversion that is even more difficult to overcome than a constitutional provision. They just do not want to do it.

Mr. POWERS. To what extent does Louisiana tax herself as a State to aid in the levee work?

Mr. PERCY. One mill. Of course that is supplemented by local taxation.

Now, it has been said that levees have raised the value of this land from a dollar an acre to anywhere from $75 to $100 an acre, and why should we not bear this whole burden of the taxation. Levees do not do that; have not done it and never can do it. When you drove the Indians out of the State of Illinois did the Federal Government by that act convert the State of Illinois into a garden? No. It simply said to the men who had the brawn and grit and courage to go there that "you can go there and make a living for yourselves if you have got the manhood to do it, unmolested by hostile tribes." In like manner these people from the valley of the Mississippi ask for one thing, and that is, the opportunity to go there and subdue the wilderness unmolested by the hostile waters that belong to this Nation. [Applause.]

I believe that if I had four or five hours I could get all of you with me, but these are the people [indicating], the party right here, that I

want to convince. [Laughter.] All that we ask is that we be given the opportunity to go there and endeavor to conquer the difficulties that nature has put between us and cultivation, and to do it without hindrance from the flood waters of the balance of the Union. The Government up to date has given us simply a fictitious sense of security. They talk about the wealth of the delta. That wealth is as unreal as the mirage in the desert. The accumulations of a lifetime are swept away in the floods of a year. It has been one series of troubles and disappointments. It has been a fight to earn a livelihood such as no other agricultural people have made in this country since the Pilgrim Fathers first landed on Plymoth Rock. This has gone on through generations, and we would have abandoned hope if the Government had not said to us, "We are going to extend to you some aid." And with that indefinite promise of aid the people leaped to the conclusion that the Federal Government was going to extend proper and efficient aid. You have got to go in there and spend from $50 to $75 an acre in clearing up that land and improving it before you can cultivate it. There are 3,500,000 acres of land cleared in the delta. There is not one acre of that land that does not represent in dollars and cents, outside of the $67,000,000 that they have paid for levee taxes, in their present imperfect state of cultivation, an expenditure of $50 an acre by the man who has put it in cultivation, and that not counting the years that he has spent in putting it into cultivation. The wealth of the people there is born of their optimism which exists between floods. It is the result of unceasing labor and toil. So I say, Mr. Chairman, that it is beyond all question of controversy that this is a work which can not be done by any local taxation.

Mr. TAYLOR. Senator, would you be able to answer a concrete question that is in my mind? What proportion of the flood that comes into this acreage that you speak of is due to the overflow from the other States?

Mr. PERCY. Ninety-nine per cent of it. In other words, the Mississippi River would not rise to the dignity of a brook except for the waters from the other States.

Mr. TREADWAY. Can you tell me what percentage of the territory affected lies within those States? You said that Louisiana was the only State, as a State, which contributed to levee work. Now, what percentage of Louisiana is affected by the floods?

Mr. PERCY. The secretary's associate tells me that there are 14,000 square miles of Louisiana affected by floods. There is a very small portion of Arkansas, a strip lying between the hills and the Mississippi River, which is affected. To show you how small it is. it has never been able to raise enough, by taxation even to the point of confiscation, even to protect itself, and they are joined in their effort to protect themselves by the people of Louisiana who are affected by the breaks in their levees.

Mr. TREADWAY. As a practical proposition, that area has not a voting strength in the various legislatures sufficient to carry an appropriation for that purpose. Is that true?

Mr. PERCY. You are painfully correct. [Laughter.]

Mr. POWERS. This Humphreys bill provides in the third section that this money to be expended by the Government shall not be put. to use until the local districts involved put up a third of it. What

would you think of this suggestion: That no money be expended by the Federal Government until the State puts up so much and the local taxation districts so much?

Mr. PERCY. The effect of it would be that there would never be another spadeful of dirt thrown up in any levee district in the valley. It could not be done by any coercion or pressure which might be brought to bear upon the States.

Mr. HUMPHREY of Washington. That is exactly the proposition that California is about to urge before this committee now. They have in the Sacramento Valley a great project there. The local authorities of the districts have agreed to pay a certain portion of the money, the State pays a certain portion of it, and now they are coming to ask the Government to pay a certain part of it.

Mr. PERCY. Of course, Mr. Humphrey, I am not familiar with that project, but they may have a less reason for calling upon the Government for aid than we have. It may constitute a sufficiently big thing to the State of California for the districts affected to be able to force or persuade the State to join them in their effort.

Mr. HUMPHREY of Washington. But it does not affect the State of California to the same extent as this affects Mississippi and Louisiana. Mr. PERCY. Well, one look at the map here will show you how very small is the area which acts as the ditch, because, when the Mississippi River is unrestrained by its levees, it goes from the hills on the west to those on the east.

Mr. TAYLOR. Senator, in reference to the question that was put to you by Mr. Humphrey of Washington just now regarding the assistance rendered by States, as States, is it or not your view and the view of this bill that the one-third which you propose to be paid by the interests-what they call the local interests-is a fair and equitable share for the protection against the waters of the other States? Mr. PERCY. That is true, Mr. Taylor; I am coming to that. That is a fair share, and whether it is raised by light taxation of the States or by onerous taxation of only the delta portions of them is immaterial so far as the equities go.

Mr. TAYLOR. That is what I wanted to bring out.

Mr. PERCY. The next question is. What is the cost of this work? That is by no means an undeterminable question. The engineers can just as well tell what kind of levees are needed and estimate the cost of constructing them as they can tell how a bridge can be constructed across a river to carry the traffic that is intended to go over it or how a building may be constructed to resist the winds that may blow against it. There are in the entire levee system to-day 243,000,000 yards of dirt, and it is estimated that to bring those levees up to a point where they would be safe from dangers of a crevasse would require 200,000,000 more yards of dirt, the cost of which will be $57.000,000. That is not a matter of conjecture or speculation, but that is what the engineers say will give safety, and they have never made an erroneous or misleading statement since they have dealt with the river.

As for what this amount of dirt can be put there will depend simply upon the question of the rate at which you can get contractors to do the work. That is exclusive of revetment. On the revetment question they estimate that it will cost $3,000,000 a year to carry on