with the Savannah River at Savannah. Part of that canal was actually constructed. It was built from Savannah across to the Ogeechee River. I understand that there was a part of the excavation started on the Altamaha part of the canal.

Mr. GILHAM. I so understand that, Mr. Edwards, and I further understand that there is a project on foot-and I am sure the gentlemen are familiar with it-to make a coastwise route through Savannah to Darien for the protection of the smaller water craft.

Mr. EDWARDS. That is practically made now.

Mr. GILHAM. Yes, sir; that is my understanding.

Mr. EDWARDS. To connect up with this Altamaha system.
Mr. GILHAM. Yes, sir; that is true.

As a consequence of actual river navigation, and to show how the value of river navigation for that short period affected the situation, the people of Macon have to-day an economy, and have had all the while an economy, through the reduction of these freight rates, amounting to $731,000 per annum. What I mean by that, Mr. Chairman, is that the railroad commission of Georgia-and this territory that I am speaking of is wholly within the State, and therefore subject to the intrastate regulatory laws-would permit these railroads to charge 25 per cent more than they are actually charging, and the laws of Georgia are so constructed that the railroad companies can not advance their rates when once set down without permission of the commission, and the commission has seen fit to still hold those rates and has been pleased to designate them as court rates.

The CHAIRMAN. How do the rates compare with rates from Atlanta and the seaboard?

Mr. GILHAM. Atlanta has really about the same relative benefits from the water competition that forms at Macon as has Macon itself. I mean by that that the Louisville rate, if it were established on the basis prescribed by the Georgia commission, would be 80 cents, whereas it is 66 cents. Our rate would be 79 cents, whereas it is 63 cents.

The CHAIRMAN. Is the rate from Atlanta also fixed by your commission?

Mr. GILHAM. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And they fix about the same rate to Savannah, for instance, as they fix all rail from Macon?

Mr. GILHAM. Yes, sir. There is an established differential of about 3 cents per 100 pounds on first class and the other classes.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the amount of that differential?

Mr. GILHAM. About 3 cents for Macon under Atlanta, from that direction from all the coast points, such as Jacksonville, Brunswick, Savannah, and Charleston. They all take practically the same rate to Macon as Atlanta.

Mr. EDWARDS. May I ask a few questions before you sit down, Mr. Gilham?

Mr. GILHAM. Certainly, sir.

Mr. EDWARDS. I notice the commerce stated in the report of the engineer on the Altamaha River is 15,533 tons, with a value of $1,777,000. Tell us, please, about what that commerce consists of. That is very valuable commerce, and has practically a value of more than $100 per ton. Then on the Oconee River you have commerce of 7,451 tons, with a value of $309,190. On the Ocmulgee you have a

commerce of 9,528 tons, with a value of $505,231. This makes a total on the Altamaha system of 18,512 tons, with a value of $2,591,421.

Before you answer that question, however, I want to state that this Altamaha system is made up of the Altamaha, Oconee, and Ocmulgee Rivers. The Altamaha has a navigable mileage of 144 miles. The Oconee has a navigable mileage to Milledgville, Ga., of 145 miles. The Ocmulgee has a navigable mileage to Macon, Ga., of 205 miles. This makes a total of navigable miles in that system in Georgia of 494 miles. It is a magnificent system.

Now let the committee know as to what that commerce consists of, and also as to the possibility of it developing a still greater commerce in that section.

Mr. GILHAM. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, on that proposition I believe Mr. Long, who will follow me, can give the correct details as to the character of this commerce.

The commerce you speak of, Mr. Edwards, and about which you ask me, was high-class commerce. In other words, it was an undertaking to move all the goods that entered the port of Brunswick for Macon in first class for a time. At that particular period, covered by the report, I am sure that is true, and Mr. Long will say so.

On other portions of the river, I do not know whether the report states what the average haul was, but I am satisfied that on the Oconee side of it, there was a great deal of local stuff, principally naval stores, which are a cheaper tonnage, as you will notice upon the report.

On the Ocmulgee River there was quite a lot of fertilizer which made up the difference between the 7,000 tons moved on the Oconee River and the 9,000 tons moved on the Ocmulgee River.

A part of the high-class freight which you notice on the Altamaha was lumber and logs, brought in just a short distance, some of it, because, as I will explain, there are a number of temporary obstructions in the river.

The appropriations, while they have done a great deal toward making this river of service to people in that particular section of Georgia, have not been sufficient. The improving of the river has not been coordinate with the density of population and of commercial growth in that section. The people have been somewhat handicapped. If you will notice, the population is exceedingly small on the river proper, because the river does not afford the proper depth and facilities, and it has never been improved to be used for its highest purpose.

I believe, Mr. Chairman, that if the river system, the Altamaha system, as we may call it, were put to a low-water depth of 4 feet, the most marvelous improvement of commerce through the most favored section of the whole country that I know of would occur. The particular boats that have been used there and they have not been so very large-have been always subjected to these snags and shoals. There are a great many sharp bends that could be improved. The appropriation of $40,000 would be hardly enough to even maintain the present condition of the river, which is not at all suitable to needs of the commerce of that section.

Mr. BOOHER. What is the distance from Macon to the Altamaha River?

Mr. GILHAM. Two hundred and five miles.

Mr. BOOHER. And the distance between Macon and Brunswick? Mr. GILHAM. That is 361 miles.

Mr. BOOHER. Where is Brunswick ?

Mr. GILHAM. Brunswick, Ga., is on the Atlantic coast and near to the mouth of the Altamaha River.

Mr. BOOHER. Is there any considerable town at the junction of the Ocmulgee and Oconee Rivers?

Mr. GILHAM. There is not much of a city there, I think.

Mr. BOOHER. Is there any commerce at that junction at all?

Mr. GILHAM. There is commerce developing now on both sides of the river. Since the last report was made I am sure the two railroads have come to the river.

Mr. BOOHER. Your town of Macon is something over 200 miles from the Altamaha River?

Mr. GILHAM. Yes, sir.

Mr. BOOHER. Are you urging the improvement of the Ocmulgee or the Altamaha?

Mr. GILHAM. If there is an appropriation had, as a matter of course we shall expect it, naturally, on the line that has heretofore been carried out, to apply to the entire system.

Mr. BOOHER. The $40,000 recommended by the engineers is for the three rivers, the Ocmulgee, the Oconee, and the Altamaha?

Mr. GILHAM. Yes, sir.

Mr. EDWARDS. That is for 494 miles of river?

Mr. GILHAM. Yes, sir.

Mr. BOOHER. Where has that money been spent, generally, on that system?

Mr. GILHAM. I believe you will find the greater portion of that money has been spent on the river between Brunswick and Hawkinsville and Dublin.

Mr. BOOHER. Hawkinsville is on the Ocmulgee River, is it not? Mr. GILHAM. Yes, sir.

Mr. BOOHER. Hawkinsville is south of Macon?

Mr. GILHAM. Yes, sir.

Mr. BOOHER. About how far south would you say?

Mr. GILHAM. I believe it is 72 miles by water and 40 miles by rail. All these mileages spoken of are water miles instead of air-line miles. Mr. BOOHER. That is what I am getting at, the distance by water. I want to ask one more question, and then I will not bother you again. You think that $40,000, that has principally been spent on the Altamaha system, is not enough and there ought to be more money, so there can be more spent up in the direction of Macon? Mr. GILHAM. Yes, sir.

Mr. BARTLETT. May I interrupt to say that for three or four of these appropriation bills, the committee, after preparing them, provided that the Secretary of War or his Chief of Engineers could, in his discretion, spend $25,000 between Macon and Hawkinsville, but that has not been done for some reason.

The CHAIRMAN. In the allotment of the sum between the two rivers, under the first act of 1912, they had $22,225 spent on the Ocmulgee River and $29,000 of the second appropriation on it.

Mr. GILHAM. Mr. Chairman, right along that line I believe the present determined purpose of the people to use this river to its utmost capacity and to its best use has come out of the fact that

during the last calendar year $16,485.14 has been spent for all purposes and in all manners right around Macon, cleaning out and deepening its sand shoals, which are of a moving character, moving all the while; that the demonstration made by that activity and by that very expenditure put in the people's minds the notion to utilize the river, because we began to make demonstrations with various types of water craft.

The last boat we had was a boat 60 feet long, drawing light 22 inches, and that boat ran to Hawkinsville, and lasted only such time as was necessary to stop and saw out logs that had fallen across the channel of the river.

The CHAIRMAN. What are you doing now in the matter of transportation?

Mr. GILHAM. Mr. Chairman, we are not actively navigating the river, I am sorry to admit. We have believed it impracticable under present conditions. We have been waiting until this present work, that is going on now at Brunswick, of pumping out the sand and removing the shoals above Hawkinsville to a depth of 3 feet and clearing the channel to a depth of 3 feet, has been completed. We have thoroughly made up our minds to then navigate that river with modern water craft.

The CHAIRMAN. That is your low-water depth, 3 feet?

Mr. GILHAM. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. How long does that continue?

Mr. GILHAM. That continues at least 80 per cent of the time now. The CHAIRMAN. Between what months of the year?

Mr. GILHAM. Between Macon and Hawkinsville?

The CHAIRMAN. I inquired between what months of the year, in what season of the year, does that continue?

Mr. GILHAM. All the months, except, say, from the 1st to the 15th of August to the 1st of November.

The CHAIRMAN. The 15th of August is about the beginning of the high-water season?

Mr. GILHAM. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. What did you ship at that time? Mr. GILHAM. We are doing a general commerce. When navigating at all, we undertake to do the through service; that is, a service from Macon to Brunswick-simply because that is the necessary service. The CHAIRMAN. What kind of freight do you carry mostly during that period?

Mr. GILHAM. As I have not been so long a resident of Macon, I am going to ask you to let Mr. Long tell you about that.

The CHAIRMAN. Very well, Mr. Gilham.

Mr. GILHAM. I only wish to say one other thing, Mr. Chairman. I call your attention to this map [indicating]. This red line shows the relative area as to the State. We all know Macon is absolutely as near as it could be possible for it to be in the geographical center of the State of Georgia. This lower blue line comes to Hawkinsville, and this [indicating] represents Macon. Here is Milledgeville, and down here is Dublin. Our trade territory-and by that I mean the territory to which the merchants of Macon are at present shipping their groceries and other goods-is composed of this territory outlined on this map in red, which is more than the territory served by Atlanta; more than the territory, of course, served by Savannah, simply

because Savannah is cut off by 50 per cent of water on the ocean side. We come in competition with Jacksonville at this point [indicating]. We come in competition with Columbus here [indicating], and with Atlanta over here [indicating], and with Augusta on this side at this point [indicating].

Mr. BоOHER. Where is the main mouth of the Altamaha?

Mr. GILHAM. At Darien.

Mr. BOOHER. How far north is that from Brunswick?

Mr. GILHAM. I think it is about 11 miles.

Mr. BOOHER. How do you come by water from Darien down to Brunswick?

Mr. GILHAM. We come in through what is known as Clubbs or Plantation Creek, which is a somewhat recent matter. The boats go into St. Simon Sound, going right into the wharf. Sometimes they were denied wharfage by the railroads, who at that time owned all the dockage facilities at Brunswick. There have been a great many flat-bottomed boats, such as were necessary to have in order to navigate the river to any extent, buried in St. Simon Sound.

Mr. BOOHER. You enter St. Simon Sound from the north and then go up the Brunswick River to Brunswick, do you not?

Mr. GILHAM. No, sir; we do not enter St. Simon Sound any more with river boats.

Mr. BOOHER. How do you get in there if you do not go through that sound?

Mr. GILHAM. This map here illustrates it exactly. We go up to within about 5 miles of the mouth of the river. Then we turn in through a creek or canal and come into the Brunswick docks. .Of course, the ocean liners come in on the ocean side of the dock, but Brunswick has recently purchased a large area of dockage for itself, a municipal dock something like we are doing at Macon.

Mr. BOоHER. Then, you do not go out to sea in order to get to Brunswick?

Mr. GILHAM. No, sir; we do not.

Mr. BOOHER. I was looking at this other map and I did not see how you could get in without going to sea.

Mr. BARTLETT. This cut-off was provided by Congress and it has been completed and recently used.

Mr. EDWARDS. I think it has been completed within the last year. Mr. BARTLETT. Yes. Our boats were destroyed before we were able to use that cut-off.

Mr. GILHAM. Mr. Chairman, I do not want to take up so much of your time. I have been making a study of transportation problems particularly-that is my profession at Macon-with a view of furnishing a more economical transportation. As a matter of course, we can not get the economical transportation to which we are entitled. unless we navigate our rivers. As I stated just now, the density of population, the great commercial growth of the southwestern portion. of Georgia, is perhaps the most marvelous in the whole country. Some counties in southwestern Georgia that were wild 15 years ago, with not an acre of ground in them cultivated, are this year producing as much as 16,000 bales of cotton right along on this river. very situation has brought the people to understand the value of the river, whereas there has been no real necessity for navigation until very recently.

That