Senator MALONE. We have had a stockpiling program since 1939. Secretary Johnson says I was the first to begin to talk to him about it in the late thirties.

Mr. FLEMMING. As I indicated, Mr. Chairman, I feel that the best way for me to tackle this along with my associates is to go right back to the beginning and take a look at the basic assumptions that have been talked about here, and then take a look at the specific objectives. I appreciate the fact that that is not something we can do overnight. It is a long process and one that is going to require taking a good deal of testimony on our part. I mean, getting people in who understand the situation to give us the benefit of their point of view. We do intend to follow that kind of an orderly procedure.

Senator MALONE. Speaking for one member of the subcommittee, I deeply appreciate that attitude and certainly have no intention of asking any questions that might in any way embarrass you in your work. Sometime, maybe early in December or late November, if you agree with us, you might come and tell us the progress you are making. Mr. FLEMMING. I would be very happy to do that.

Senator MALONE. The Interior and Insular Affairs Committee has. generally been behind such plans. In other words, the building of pilot plants in fields that look favorable, like, for example, the production of petroleum fuels from coal and oil shale. Both of those formulas or methods are fairly well known, I think, and feasible from an operational standpoint, but not feasible from a cost standpoint yet. In national defense that is not the controlling factor.

Are you familiar with the work on titanium at all?

Mr. FLEMMING. The only thing I do know is that a review board I set up did raise the goal on titanium some weeks ago. I think we wrote you to that effect.

Senator MALONE. Yes.

Mr. FLEMMING. I think we provided members of the staff with a copy of the paper that was used by the Review Board.

Senator MALONE. While we had an executive hearing out there, they would be available to you.

Mr. FLEMMING. I appreciate that.

Senator MALONE. General Metzger, Wright Field, Dayton, Ohio, perhaps the outstanding experimental field in the world, spent about 4 hours before our committee out there and what he said was very interesting.

We have letter contracts for about thirteen or fourteen thousand tons per year, about 35 tons per day for titanium. I am just taking this one material. We are going into each one of these materials, about 77 of them. We are getting much less than half of that amount after 3 years, and a considerable amount of that production is subspecification material.

The Government is getting very little of it. Much of it is going to England. Twenty-five thousand five hundred tons per year have been authorized. Thirty-five thousand tons per year have been requested, I believe, through either the Munitions Board or the armed services.

The general testified that if the manufacturers of fighter-bomber planes and commercial planes could just forget about the production and that the material would be up to specifications; that from one

hundred to one hundred fifty thousand tons per year would be required immediately. We are only started on that program. Du Pont and the Titanium Corp. have been in the business for about 3 years but have not whipped it yet. The Crane Co. in Chicago has been awarded a contract. They are looking around for a place to operate because of a power shortage. The power shortage is acute where the Titanium Corp. is located.

With respect to manganese and rutile and other things, it is a little silly to become dependent on foreign nations. Therefore, this committee is going to try in each case to determine how self-sufficient we can become under a proper set of principles adopted by the Congress of the United States. With the proper treatment the resources of other Western Hemisphere nations can be counted on in reaching this goal. Most of the people I have discussed this matter with are of the opinion that we will not have any trouble defending the Western Hemisphere.

Naturally, we will have some ship losses in the Carribean area, but either land, or coastal transportation, can be utilized which is more easily defended than long lines of communications from the Eastern Hemisphere.

Mr. FLEMMING. I would certainly be very much interested in the information you develop.

Senator MALONE. I know you will. If you get any information, we will be interested in it.

Mr. FLEMMING. I would be very happy to supply it.

Senator MALONE. They tell me that the mineral, some rutile, but mostly ilminite, rank about fourth or fifth in the supply of metallic minerals in the earth's surface.

There is no question about it, there is plenty of raw material. The problem is licking the technical difficulties. Titanium metal is twice as strong as aluminum and stands more heat and has other qualities that are confidential. These special qualities make it imperative that military planes be built out of it.

There are planes on the drawing board now that are to be made of half titanium, but they do not dare take them off. Bombers which are also on the board, can make a drop at any place in the world and get back, require this material. It might make a considerable difference in our national defense setup.

URANIUM

Now, you get into the field of nuclear energy. There again pretty near all engineers are obsolete or will be in about 10 years. We now get a lot of this raw material from the Belgian Congo and way points. In 1944 an industrial report of the 11 Western States was published. I was a director of it. It weighs about the same as Webster's Dictionary and still is the reference work for the area. In that report we pointed out the availability of the raw materials for this nuclear energy in Colorado and other States.

This committee early this year had referred to it a bill to iron out certain relations between oil and gas leases. So we, after careful study, reported a bill out and they say it is working pretty good out there. It is the intention of this committee to hold a hearing, in

Salt Lake or Denver, but I am about persuaded to go to Grand Junction where the mining is taking place.

Many people believe, and I think it is beyond a prospector's dreams, that we may be self-sufficient in the production of the raw materials for nuclear energy for the bombs and commercial use. It is certainly true, in the Western Hemisphere; and it may be found to be so in the United States.

It looks like we are undertaking quite a job when you go into 77 minerals like this, but that democratic horse in Pennsylvania spoiled my vacation anyway, so I intend to stay with it until Congress convenes. We want to work with you.

Mr. FLEMMING. Thank you. We will certainly look forward to working with you.

Senator MALONE. I knew this would be interesting to you.

Mr. FLEMMING. It is, very much so.

Senator MALONE. The committee will be interested in any information you dig up on this thing and then your recommendations as to what Congress should do in adopting a principle for establishing an incentive to develop a new set of miners and watchmakers and people we have lost in the last 20 years.

Mr. FLEMMING. I think if the committee to which I refer is set up, it will be possible for the agencies to get together and to cooperate with you also.

Senator MALONE. Thank you very much, Mr. Flemming.

(Whereupon, at 4:30 p. m., the hearing in the foregoing matter was recessed to reconvene on October 16, 1953.)

STOCKPILE AND ACCESSIBILITY OF STRATEGIC AND CRITICAL MATERIALS TO THE UNITED STATES IN TIME OF WAR

FRIDAY, OCTOBER 16, 1953

UNITED STATES SENATE,

SUBCOMMITTEE ON MINERALS,

MATERIALS, AND FUELS ECONOMICS, OF THE
COMMITTEE ON INTERIOR AND INSULAR AFFAIRS,

Washington, D. C.

The subcommittee met, pursuant to recess, at 10:30 a. m., in the committee room, 224 Senate Office Building, Washington, D. C., Senator George W. Malone, Nevada, chairman of the subcommittee, presiding.

Present: Senator George W. Malone, Nevada (chairman of the subcommittee).

Also present: Jerome S. Adlerman, counsel to the subcommittee; Thomas F. Flynn, subcommittee assistant counsel; George B. Holderer, subcommittee staff engineer; and Richard G. Sinclair, subcommittee accountant.

Senator MALONE. The committee will be in order.

The meeting originally set for 9:30 was postponed until 10:30 because I had forgotten an appointment I had with Secretary of Commerce Weeks.

Mr. Walsh, we were discussing yesterday the matter of importing materials for use of the Government without the payment of duties, imposts, or excises, as the Constitution refers to them, commonly known as tariffs and import fees. Could you give us the story in regard to that matter at the beginning as to just what materials have been brought in without such payments, and the basic law upon which the Executive order was based, when the law was passed, and when the order was issued?

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