Mr. ANDREWs. That will be handed over to the Director of Mutual Security and probably be in the Personnel Division of the Director of Mutual Security.

Mr. KENNELLY. So, your security clearances now will probably be handled by Mr. Stassen's security staff

Mr. ANDREWs. That's right.

Mr. KENNELLY. And your Personnel Department will share or will get support from the Personnel Division of MSA for personnel matters?

Mr. ANDREWS. From Mr. Stassen's office; yes, sir.

Mr. KENNELLY. Has that been accomplished yet?

Mr. ANDREWS. No; by agreement or by direction yesterday with the Budget Bureau the actual transfer of funds and personnel functions from State to the Director of Mutual Security will not come about until July 1, because it involves a changing of all the symbols on all of the funds, and all that sort of thing, but on July 1 it does go over directly to Mr. Stassen lock, stock, and barrel.

Mr. KENNELLY. Will that cut down on the number of support positions in the Department of State?

Mr. ANDREWS. Oh, yes; there will be a very sharp reduction there, although our communications will still have to go through State, even as mutual security communications go through State, and there will have to be people paid for that, communications and various other service functions, which even MSA has State do.

Mr. MEADER. Is that all?

Mr. KENNELLY. That is all.

Mr. MEADER. Mr. Andrews, I suppose there has been some variation in procedures as between the technical assistance program of MSA and your own program?

Mr. ANDREWS. Oh, yes, sir. Yes, sir.

Mr. MEADER. Now, since you have been transferred into MSA, is it expected that you will conform your practices and policies and procedures to those of MSA?

Mr. ANDREWS. That will have to be worked out, sir. See, we operate under the Act for International Development, which is a permanent act and a permanent part of the foreign policy of the United States. That Act for International Development-first, by the very content of the act and, second, by the congressional interpretation that is made on it can operate only in certain areas in a certain way. MSA, since that is a year-to-year appropriation, a year-to-year existence, can operate in an entirely different way, and the principal differences between the two operations-MSA emphasizes the utilization and spreading of materials and commodities and supplies within the country. They can spend any amount of money they want for machinery or anything else within the country. We cannot. We have got to emphasize the use of technicians and only such supporting supplies as those technicians must have to carry on a program. That's as far as we can go, and even under our act, unless the act is amended, and the present interpretation of it, we cannot operate in the manner that MSA does.

Mr. MEADER. Well, do I understand by this transfer of Executive Order 10458 your autonomy will be dissolvedMr. ANDREWS. No.

Mr. MEADER. And you will be subject to MSA?

Mr. ANDREWs. At the present time, sir, no, for the simple fact that you cannot do it without a congressional act.

Now, if the Reorgnaization Plan No. 7 goes through, it will affect slightly certain personnel, administrative procedures, and things of that kind. It will not, cannot, affect, unless there is an amendment, unless the Reorganization Act is changed, the basic policy or the basic philosophy and the basic effect of the Act for International Development.

Mr. MEADER. Well, now, let me ask you: Do you have trainees visiting this country to learn industrial methods?

Mr. ANDREWS. Yes, sir; yes, sir, although not very many, sir, because there's not very many industrialists or very many industries in the countries we're working in.

Mr. MEADER. Approximately how many out of the twelve or thirteen hundred you had last year would be trainees in industrial methods?

Mr. ANDREWS. I can probably get that for the record, sir. I wouldn't know. I would say it would run less than a hundred, in my opinion.

(The following additional information was furnished by Mr. Andrews.)

One hundred forty-seven awards have been granted to industrial trainees. This total includes 31 trainees in railroads. It covers all awards made in this field cf activity during fiscal years 1951, 1952, and 1953.

Mr. MEADER. Now, I believe Mr. Brownson asked you whether or not it was your practice to permit those trainees to go only to certain plants.

Mr. ANDREWS. They can go to any plant they want to. I wouldn't say any plant they want to. They can go to plants that meet the conditions technically, but there's no question of whether it's a labor or nonlabor, if that is what your question

Mr. MEADER. You don't require any criteria that it must be an organized union plant - to send your industrial trainees there? Mr. ANDREWs. No; as a matter of fact

Mr. MEADER. Do you know whether or not it is the policy of the MSA to require that the trainees they bring here

Mr. ANDREWs. I do not, sir.

Mr. MEADER. Well, if it is their policy to have the Labor Division to specify what plants can be visited by these visiting trainees, will you expect that you will have to conform to their policy with respect to any industrial trainees that you bring here in your program?

Mr. ANDREWS. Sir, I couldn't answer that truthfully, because I don't know.

As a matter of fact, I have been on Mr. Stassen's staff since the inauguration, and he's a pretty wide-awake and a pretty able fellow, and he's pretty sharp on a lot of these things. I do not believe that he will direct us to change the present policy, although he may.

Mr. Stassen came to our office yesterday for the first time-that is the first time he had been to our office-because he is our new boss, and his orders were, sir, to us, to carry on as we had been carrying on. And I might say early under the new administration I did talk with Mr. Lourie of Mr. Dulles' office and Mr. Stassen to the effect, "We can't bother you every hour of the day for new orders or new

43176-54-5

policy. We're going to try to run this TCA as the Congress this last year laid down for us to run it; and if we're doing it wrong, you stop

us."

And I will say this: They haven't in a single instance come in and said, "Well, now, you've got to do it this way."

(At this point Mr. Brownson resumed the chair.)

Mr. BROWNSON. Of course, they haven't been in town very much yet either.

Mr. ANDREWS. I'm not going to comment on that one, sir; but, as I said before, Mr. Stassen yesterday simply said, "Carry on," and that's what we'll do, sir, until we're told to do otherwise.

Mr. BROWNSON. Mr. Andrews, will you supply our counsel, before you leave, with the balance of charts or information you may have for the record.

Mr. ANDREWS. Thank you, sir.

Mr. BROWNSON. I want to thank you very much for your testimony. Mr. ANDREWs. Well, I thank you.

Mr. BROWNSON. I hope we have given you the opportunity to put everything you wanted to in the record, because we are very anxious to have a complete record which is fair in every way to your agency. Mr. ANDREWS. Well, we are anxious, sir, and the thing I can say, as far as we're concerned, is that we're certainly not infallible.

I do think this training program is really a great program, and what I would like-and what we need-is all the guidance and all the help to make it really work.

I do feel-and I will say now as a policy-I think we must reduce the number coming to this country and do more training in the field and on the job in the field.

Mr. BROWNSON. Well, that quite often produces a level of training they need most.

Mr. ANDREWs. That's right.

Mr. BROWNSON. As I understand, the biggest need is for this same type of general mechanic we can pick up in any corner garage here in the United States.

Mr. ANDREWS. That's right.

Mr. BROWNSON. Obviously, there's no necessity for bringing a young man all the way over here to the United States to acquire that kind of skill.

Mr. ANDREWS. No; and we have been sending people now out from the great dam projects, recruited from great machine companies of this country, to show them how to maintain their equipment.

(The following paper is included in the record at this point as exhibit 12:)

EXHIBIT 12

BRIEFING PAPER FOR STANLEY P. ANDREWS ON TRAINING OF FOREIGN NATIONALS BY TCA

Section 403 (a) and 418 of the Act for International Development provides the legal basis for the training of foreign nationals by TCA. The principal objective of the technical cooperation program is to share with the peoples of underdeveloped areas the knowledge and skills they need to develop their own abilities and reSources. This is done by sending United States and other skilled experts into the cooperating countries at their request to train the native peoples and by bringing selected local leaders and technicians to the United States for training and study at our technical schools and universities and to observe United States farm and factory methods. We have also used special regional centers such as American

University of Beirut where trainees can work under the production and marketing conditions more nearly like conditions in their home countries. A similar program is under way in Puerto Rico for Latin American trainees. The policy is to bring to the United States only those persons who cannot be served adequately by the training facilities in their own countries or in their own regions.

OPERATIONS OF TRAINING PROGRAM

The technical training of these selected leaders and trainees is actually done by the other departments and agencies with TCA establishing the policies, coordinating the operating details, and reviewing the effectiveness of the proThe primary job of determining the number, field of training, and selection of individual rests with the TCA country director in the field:

gram.

The agencies are reimbursed for the following types of expenditures for training: (a) Screening of applications;

(b) Preparation of awards;

(c) Preparation of prospecti and itineraries for grantees;

(d) Placement of trainees, travel arrangements, and arrangement of schedules and appointments for leaders;

(e) Training and supervision of trainees, including compensation for technical personnel engaged in training or other tuition type costs;

evaluation of training facilities;

Payment of stipends, tuition, and other expenses provided in awards;
Maintenance of records and preparation of reports.

FINANCING

Fiscal year 1952 and 1953 the costs attributable directly to the trainee were paid from program funds while the expenses incurred by the training staffs of the various departments and agencies were charged as administrative expenses. In 1954 the executive branch determined that the budget would be submitted on the basis that both types of expenses would be charged to program funds. Accordingly, the figures for 1952 and 1953 have been adjusted for comparability to the 1954 basis.

Training costs, like other forms of technical assistance, are often shared by cooperation governments. As a program gains maturity more shared-cost grants are issued. There are three types of grants awarded:

Type A: All costs borne by the United States.

Type B: United States provide only facilities-all other costs borne by host government.

Type C: United States pays part of cost, other costs met by grantee, his government, or his private sponsor.

COORDINATION OF PROGRAMS

TCA and IIA of the Department of State, MSA, and Department of Defense have an informal advisory and coordinating committee to achieve maximum uniformity of operations. In addition, an informal training committee of personnel from TCA and participating agencies meet periodically to discuss common problems. For example, a contract to which each agency has contributed, has been made with American University and Washington International Center for handling the trainees upon arrival in Washington. For this purpose in 1953, $72,000 was expended. This international center provides orientation during a 1-week course; American University provides English refresher courses, when required as well as orientation to American facilities.

SUPPLEMENTARY TRAINING DEVICES 1

This summer in the United States there is being established an experimental training center for the short-term training of foreign students graduating from American universities. It is thought that this plan might eventually supply a considerable number of the junior technicians so greatly needed by their countries. Two international conferences have been held at land-grant colleges in the United States in the past 2 years. One was the Conference on World Land Tenure Problems held at the University of Wisconsin, late in 1951 sponsored by the university, MSA, TCA, and the Department of Agriculture. The second was the International Conference on Agricultural and Cooperative Credit held at

1 Ordinarily a 4-week course, but may vary from 1 to 6 weeks.

the University of California in summer of 1952. This was sponsored by some Federal agencies and the university. Delegates from many TCA countries attended. Many foreign trainees who were in the United States at the time also participated.

TRAINING OF U. N. FELLOWS

The U. N. fellowship and scholarship programs are similar to TCA and MSA trainee programs. The fellows are mature professionals who go abroad for consultation and investigation and the scholars are those that enroll for advanced study in colleges. Many of the departments and agencies that are participating in the TCA training program also provide training services for the U. N. fellows and scholars. The U. N. pays the expenses of the fellows and scholars, but TCA has budgeted for the training expenses of the agencies in the handling of this type of training.

Considerable detail has already been made available to the committee in the so-called bluebooks. However, if there are further questions regarding this, I or my staff will be glad to answer them.

Mr. BROWNSON. Well, I want to thank you very much again for your very frank testimony.

Mr. ANDREWS. Thank you very much for being so nice. I was before a committee this morning which was not quite as friendly as this one.

Mr. BROWNSON. The hearing will recess until 10 o'clock tomorrow morning, at which time Miss Richardson will be the first witness.

(Whereupon, at 5:40 p. m., the hearing was recessed, to reconvene at 10 a. m. Thursday, June 4, 1953.)