under control. The reason that 1 percent of the small fires get out of control and become big fires is because of the total inaccessibility of this forest terrain.

For example it took fire fighters 3 hours on foot to reach the Deer fire from the end of the nearest road. Under these conditions it is extremely dangerous for fire fighters if a wind should suddenly come up or shift.

Suppose we took a 10-mile square area in the heart of Los Angeles and eliminated all the water mains, alleys, and streets leaving just a narrow street about every 3 miles. Imagine that the vacant areas are filled in solid with small buildings and instead of flat ground you substitute the steep terrain with the deep rugged inaccessible canyons as now exist in the national forest north of San Bernardino. Now, if a jetplane crashed in the middle of this highly flammable area setting it on fire, how do you think the Los Angeles Fire Department could put it out when they couldn't get within a mile of it? This was the exact problem that confronted the Forest Service in the McKinley fire.

How could you expect to quickly bring under control at night the East Highlands fire in an equally inaccessible terrain with the Santa Ana winds howling off the desert causing the extreme powder dry forest terrain to virtually explode.

Incidentally, those two large pictures are of the East Highlands fire, showing the wind coming from the desert over the top of the mountains.

The Forest Service first had to build roads and clear safety zones before they could move men and equipment in to start to combat the McKinley and East Highlands fires last year. No fire-fighting organization can control a fire that they cannot reach. The Forest Service personnel in charge of the San Bernardino National Forest has done an outstanding job with the limited funds at their disposal.

We soil conservation district directors contend it would have been much wiser for Congress to have used the $1 million spent to suppress the Arrowhead, McKinley, and East Highlands fires on upper watershed conservation land treatment measures as proposed in the excellent fire-prevention plan prepared by the Forest Service.

You have a picture of that in the folder.

Then there would have been no permanent damage to the water retention ability of these burned areas. Instead you would have had permanent fire-prevention protection through sufficient access roads, firebreaks and cleared safety zones for men and equipment, helicopter ports and water replenishment stations.

We soil conservation district directors respectfully urge your committee to encourage Congress to follow our example of good land stewardship by providing sufficient Federal funds to carry out the so necessary watershed conservation protective measures on the Federal lands that Congress is actually, legally, and morally responsible for. Thank you very much.

(The pictures submitted by Mr. Silverwood will be found in the files of the committee.)

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Mr. Silverwood.

Now, Mr. Nicholas, do you have a prepared statement?

STATEMENT OF M. A. NICHOLAS, CHIEF ENGINEER, COUNTY FLOOD CONTROL DISTRICT, SAN BERNARDINO, CALIF.

Mr. NICHOLAS. I have a prepared statement to the committee and request that statement be made a matter of record.

The CHAIRMAN. Without objection, it will be included following Mr. Nicholas' oral testimony.

We would appreciate it if you would try to summarize your remarks in 5 minutes while we are looking through your statement here.

Mr. NICHOLAS. I prefer to, perhaps, make some comments other than what is covered by the report to the committee, if the committee has no objection. I will try to keep right to the point, and having appeared before a number of committees at congressional level, I know that time is of the essence.

I would just like to make reference to this map that we have placed on the stand, which shows the area that lies above the city of San Bernardino, which I think is perhaps worth far more than anything I can say in the way of a description of the conditions that exist.

While we realize that controlling of fires by firebreaks and such other methods is a very sound principle, we do not see how we can get or the Forest Service can develop roads in and around those particular mountains at the degree of slope that exists at the present time. You can realize that for almost every foot in elevation you go up you go 1 foot back, or approximately a 45° angle. To try and climb that type of terrain is almost impossible.

The thought of going into the use of helicopters and newer methods, forgetting some of these ideas that have been used in the past and going into the research that has been used by the Federal Government and industry to make the United States what it is today, if we will turn around and use that energy and take the terrific sums of money that have been used to put the fires out and go by the old adage that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, I think we can accomplish something.

I do feel that along the roads, even with the advances they have made today in the material, or should I say the use of the various types of growth that they have experimented with as fire-resistant growth-that the use of that along the highways, not necessarily taking the material that is there today and just taking it cut, but replacing it because to maintain a large area along the main bichway and prevent the people from getting out and getting into that brush and starting fires is impossible. As a result, if they could use along the highways for certain areas, perhaps three or four hundred feet, for developing existing resistant material to fire, we would then have possibilities of preventing the tendency of some kids riding along the road-not necessarily just children but people using the mountainsflipping out the cigarettes as they do perhaps in a back yard and forgetting about the fact that 1 cigarette or 1 match can cause such a terrific amount of damage.

I think that is the type of development and research that should be used, and I think that is where the money should be spent. We just cannot stand still and say that developing firebreaks and getting the equipment out there is the answer. I think it is the beginning of the answer. It is a step in that direction. But I do think we have to go

and take this transition, and jump across this transition as much as possible, because the people are going to use the area whether we like it or do not like it. They are going to go in there by one means or another. I think that is our only logical approach to it.

Thank you very much.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you for that excellent statement, Mr. Nicholas.

(The statement submitted by Mr. Nicholas follows:)

A PRESENTATION TO THE COMMITTEE ON INTERIOR AND INSULAR AFFAIRS, HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES OF THE UNITED STATES, IN LOS ANGELES, CALIF., OCTOBER 9,

1957

Hon. Clair Engle, chairman of the committee, and committee members: On behalf of the county of San Bernardino, Calif., we are presenting to you material at this hearing you have called regarding the disastrous forest and brush fires that are all too frequent in southern California. San Bernardino County, the largest county in the United States, contains the major portion of the San Bernardino National Forest and a great many other Federal installations. Our material is presented on the basis that San Bernardino County has been a selfhelp agency, doing what is necessary to preserve our local investment and protect our own future. Our material will show, however, that State and Federal agencies need to join hands in an even more firm grip in a true attack on our common enemy, fire.

The mountain areas of California, and particularly of San Bernardino County, are a valuable part of the Nation's playground. This playground is for all of the people of the western United States, and we believe that we will show that the local interests are doing all in their power to protect and develop these mountain resources. We believe it will also be shown in your hearings in California that the United States Government must improve its own participation in the development, preservation and improvement of these natural resources on Federal lands.

FIRE FIGHTING

Private citizens within the San Bernardino National Forest have created seven active special taxation divisions of government for the fighting of fire as their sole purpose. In addition, two communities have created active volunteer fire units, duly organized and operating, but without the benefits of a tax levying power. These 7 operating districts now man 19 operative fire stations. intently cover 52 square miles of the national forest. They keep actively trained, 220 effective volunteers. These same people have spent, during the past year, $182,000 and they have budgeted for the current fiscal year $324,000 in an attack on fire. These organized districts pay a tax rate which averages $1.09 per $100 of assessed valuation, which rate is almost twice that of the normal fire district within this county. Almost all developed private property within the San Bernardino National Forest now is included within an organized fire district. These fire districts, with all of their equipment and manpower, cooperate actively with the United States Forest Service and the State division of forestry in any and all fire threats to the entire mountain area.

These fire districts are formed for structural fire protection primarily, but it is obvious that in these tinder-dry areas the greatest threat to improvements comes from inaccessible brush and timber watersheds outside the developed areas and, therefore, fires must be fought wherever they may occur, and such is the dedicated service of each of these districts.

In another attack on fire, the county of San Bernardino has approved and used for 2 years the industrial road camp prisoners of the county in an active fire suppression, under the direction of and through a contract with the United States Forest Service. In addition, this year the board of supervisors has approved the creation of a 10-man fire prevention crew which is working under the guidance of trained staff of the United States Forest Service, and another one soon to be placed under the direction of the State forester. These two active crews will work in creating wide safety areas along traveled roadways, or on any fringe areas that present a possible threat to our watersheds. The best testimony to the results of these services comes from the United States

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forester in the area who attests to the value of these crews as early striking forces, as well as fire prevention workers.

In addition to the above local activities, the county, from the general fund, has an annual contract with the State of California Division of Forestry, totaling approximately $130,000. This sum covers the cooperative contract for yearround coverage of the seasonal State stations and provides much in the way of fire rigs, special tools, communications and manpower. This program adds to the mutual aid striking force for forest and watershed fires, and frees city and district equipment in our splendid cooperative fire-fighting program.

AUXILIARY SERVICES

The county of San Bernardino has improved its service on rubbish control and disposal under a cooperative agreement with the Forest Service within the residential and recreational areas of the San Bernardino National Forest. The county is improving its rubbish-disposal program, wherever possible, by initiating cut-and-cover or sanitary fill methods of rubbish disposal instead of burning. One or more dumps will be converted to this type of cover in the current year.

During the past 6 years, the county of San Bernardino has carried on an active and cooperative program with State and Federal agencies in the development of browseways, in upstream control, in spring development, and in other items such as quail guzzler installations. As you gentlemen recognize, these developments are integral parts of the preservation of our forest resources.

During the long fire season, the entire personnel of the San Bernardino County sheriff's office works constantly with the fire services in the maintenance of an efficient arson investigation program and a forest highway control. The sheriff of San Bernardino County maintains a staff with adequate training patrolling the roads through the national forest. The sheriff, with an excellent law-enforcement radio system and many cars, puts in many hundreds of hours each year in preserving a clear roadway through the fire service area and in checking suspicious characters.

FLOOD CONTROL

The San Bernardino County Flood-Control District is divided into several zones with different interests and approaches to flood-prevention problems. One of these zones (zone 5) covers the large part of the San Bernardino National Forest in San Bernardino County, and the budget of this particular zone in this current year provides the following funds which go a long way in showing the demand interest and expenditures of the people who love, and are a part of the mountain watersheds of this county. Following are the four budget items of

concern:

1. $20,000 in fire breaks and trail projects.

2. $8,000 for construction on a water pipeline project.

3. $5,000 for pine beetle and insect-control cooperation with the United States Forest Service.

4. $16,000 for expenditure in preplanning for fire control, including water-tank construction.

These are the same citizens who are paying a large part of the fire-control bill through the special districts which were mentioned in the early part of our presentation. Surely, this is concrete evidence of local self-help to get a job done. Zone 3 of the flood-control district has appropriated $2,500 for forestfire preplanning, in addition to other money that will be made available for the small watersheds development program proposed for this zone (Public Law 566). Zone 1 of the flood-control district is proceeding rapidly in the long-range program for the small watershed development which is an approved project of the California conservation proposal.

In addition to these recurring projects, the county has participated, whenever necessary, in the emergency seeding of burned areas for erosion and flood prevention.

The inseparable relationship between fire prevention and flood control in watershed protection is well understood in San Bernardino County. The handling of huge volumes of swift, moving water and the excessive loads of debris are the direct and terrible results of destructive brush and mountain fires. The counties of San Bernardino, Riverside, and Orange hold regular meetings of their boards of supervisors to consider the mutual problems on these and other drainage-basin concern. The 3 counties have entered into a mutual agree

ment for the joint representation of our flood and fire problems, and have presented a unified petition before at least 3 State or Federal agencies.

SUMMARY

The maps and facts presented here today must emphasize to you that the San Bernardino Mountains present an area of great present recreation activity and future potential. These same areas also present a most serious fire-fighting problem. The brush and timber covering these mountains and their extremely steep slopes must be protected by every means known to man. Yes, we must even push our research on the new items of fire control in order that these and other similar natural resources in the United States be preserved. The map which shows the 10-mile fire burn in the past few years must be descriptive beyond any of our words of the problem facing the valley areas. The other material we have submitted certainly must show you that the county, in cooperation with local citizens and they, in turn with the State and Federal agencies, have done an excellent job in preserving what we have for the entire national economy. We feel that this demonstrates we are not coming with empty hands when we urge upon you and your committee to do all in your power to see that adequate funds are provided research, prevention, and suppression programs.

Your attention is called to the tabulation submitted herewith which shows that from 1953 through 1956, 79 square miles of valuable watershed and recreational areas were burned from front slopes of the San Bernardino National Forest. The material will show the volumes of debris, the volumes of runoff water, and the summary of remedial measures undertaken at the local level, and we urge that you review this material at your convenience.

It must be clear that in spite of our local, cooperative efforts, fires do and will occur, and we call upon the honorable members of this committee to support an expanding Federal program in every approach to the control or eradication in forest and brush land fires.

Respectfully submitted.

BOARD OF SUPERVISORS, COUNTY OF SAN BERNARDINO,
STATE OF CALIFORNIA.