promulgated and applied in that State. I believe my arguments in reference to section 12 would also apply here. If minimum regulations have been developed and are being enforced, then they should apply to all youth camps in a given area regardless of sponsorship. (8) Advisory Council on Youth Camp Safety, section 15. This section could be strengthened, and I believe the anxiety and tensions of the camping professionals would be considerably lessened if the names of nationally recognized organizations were cited for membership on the National Advisory Council. You have already set the precedent by indicating that one representative would come from the Department of the Interior. Might it not be possible to also state in this section that representatives would include someone from the National Office of the Boy Scouts of America; the Girl Scouts of the United States; the Campfire Girls, Inc.; the YM-YWCA and the American Camping Association. This would guarantee representation of competent professionals in the camping field and protect such appointments from falling into the category of political patronage or any other such abuses. In conclusion, Mr. Chairman, I would like to commend you and Mr. Peyser for the time and effort you have spent on behalf of the camping profession in the development of H.R. 1486. With these minor adjustments I would urge its immediate passage. In my judgment, such legislation is long overdue and will contribute significantly to the health, welfare, and safety of children participating in organized camping experiences. I also wish to express my gratitude to you, Mr. Chariman, and the members of the committee for permitting me to share by views of H.R. 1486. Thank you. Mr. DANIELS. Dr. Kirk, I want to compliment you on an outstanding analysis of this bill. I appreciate the comments you have made and the recommendations that you have made. I know you have been quite a leader in this field and your work is well known. I appreciate your enforcement of this legislation. I have just a couple of questions. I know you are quite familiar with the ACA accreditation program. I wonder if you could point out to this committee, any deficiency that you have observed. Dr. KIRK. One thing that has concerned me as to that program is that we visit the camps once every 5 years. It is not that we wouldn't like to do it every year, it is that we utilize volunteers, trained in an ever intensive program. We require there be a visiting team of two people, usually camp directors in their own right. They have to go out in the summer, so it is quite a chore to organize the visiting programs in all the 38 sections of ACA, throughout the 50 States. I know there is some movement afoot to move it down to 3 years and gradually get the 1 day to an annual inspection. How far in the future, I don't know. Any legislative program would require an annual inspection and I think that would be a much better approach and is one of the weaknesses, as I see it, in our own program. Mr. DANIELS. Has there been any change in the fee charge by the association? Dr. KIRK. There is a new fee schedule going into effect. Right now, a camp director, in order to be a member of the association, has to be an accredited camp member; you are not to hold an individual membership, some may, but it is in violation. Under the new fee schedule it is possible to be a member of the association, then an additional fee is charged for the accreditation of the camp. I personally oppose this whole approach to the fee structure and there is nothing as obsolete as a past president who does not hold too much weight. Mr. DANIELS. Does a director of a camp who enrolls in ACAmust he necessarily be associated or affiliated with a camp? Dr. KIRK. There are different categories of membership. There is individual membership and a camp membership and executive membership. There will be a student membership, and an executive membership. A separate fee schedule will be in effect for the accreditation of the camp. My concern is that some may hold a membership but not have this camp accreditation. A person could ask an individual if that individual is a member of the association; there is no guarantee the camp has met the requirements. Mr. DANIELS. Do you think because of his membership in the association, it might imply the camp he is associated with is also a member of the association? Dr. KIRK. It is possible. Mr. DANIELS. Then, I think that is an area the American Camping Association ought to police themselves. Dr. KIRK. We are. Mr. DANIELS. You have had a great deal of experience over the past years in camping experiences. You have been affiliated with a number of organizations. Have you had an opportunity to examine the camping legislation recently enacted in Texas? Dr. KIRK. Yes, I have. I think the Texas law is an excellent law as it is written. I also think the regulations promulgated will go a long way. I know there was some concern expressed as to the implementation or concept of a Federal bill. In my judgment, they have nothing to fear. They have an excellent law and I would assume based on my experience that the Texas program would meet all criteria. Mr. DANIELS. How does that law compare with the Michigan law, which you helped promulgate? Dr. KIRK. It does not provide the consultation service. You have to look back over the years and note how long the State of Michigan has been involved in this. The basic regulatory program is similar to Michigan's. Mr. DANIELS. Thank you very much. I recognize my colleague, Mr. Peyser. Mr. PEYSER. I have no questions but I think your analysis of the program and your testimony was excellent. Thank you. Mr. DANIELS. The gentleman from Connecticut, Mr. Sarasin. Mr. SARASIN. You talked about the State of Michigan, which has probably the best laws in the country. In our hearings with the director of the State of Michigan, there was the absence of the statistical information on safety. Is this something that was left out when the law was enacted? Dr. KIRK. The regulatory functions come under the department of social service's response for the supervision of children from birth to age 19, whenever they are away from their parents or legal guardians. It is the broadest law of this kind ever conceived in the world. This means there are separate divisions for listing of day care, boarding homes, summer camps, and a very elaborate network of field service. When I was connected with the department, they had 92 social workers to implement this child welfare law and, as I say, camps were part of it. There was not at that time, funds alloted to camp research. We had to collect data. Mr. SARASIN. If I might interrupt, the information we received here was that they just toss the statistics out after 3 years. Dr. KIRK. That is right. If there is something that looks questioanble, there is an immediate followup. It goes into a file; it is held for a part of time and then it goes. It would be necessary if funds were available or turned over to a university. I could see a group of graduate students using this material to compile the data. Mr. SARASIN. I would think you would have an ongoing interest in statistics to see if your program is successful. Dr. KIRK. During my tenure, I took just the one area to check out myself. This was the area of drownings in camps. From the time regulations were promulgated until they were revised, there was anywhere from one to six drownings. In 1960, with 200.000 contact hours a day, there were no drownings in Michigan State, which according to other camp directors, is one of the finest records ever achieved. Restrictions were not stringent. I took that one area because it stood out. In 1959, there were six drownings and this is what brought me to go to my supervisors and state that something had to be done. Mr. SARASIN. Do you feel the regulations promulgated by the Secretary can be provided for day camps as well as resident camps? Dr. KIRK. Very definitely every type of camping. Obviously, if there is a regulation for buildings and there are no buildings, the regulation does not apply. So, I think in the development of regulations, those which did not apply would be so obvious that they would not create any problems. A troop camp is a resident camp, sir, therefore the water has to be safe. There has to be adequate water facilities, sleeping accommodations. It is a temporary resident camp. It is not permanent. The same is true in day camping. One of my concerns has been the lunch bus. Some of the lunches that youngsters bring contain different kinds of salads and sauces and it is put out in the hot sun. If you have swimming in a day camp, it is no different than swimming in a resident camp. I often said, the only difference is yon have substituted the buildings with buses and that is the only difference between a summer camp and a resident camp, in my judgment. Mr. SARASIN. Thank you, Doctor. Mr. DANIELS. With reference to the day camp or troop camp, I believe this morning you were here when a representative of the Girl Scouts of America testified where it was suggested by the witness that an exemption be given to day camps. In view of your experience in this type of work, what would be your thoughts and views on that subject? Dr. KIRK. As far as troop camps, we worked out something with the Boy Scouts. They have a vast number of troop camps going out. Mr. DANIELS. How does a troop camp differ from the ordinary day camp? Dr. KIRK. A scout leader joins two assistants and takes 20 to 25 boys off. They would set up a camp in Farmer Brown's pasture somewhere. They may stay there 1 week, 10 days or maybe a weekend. In Michigan, if they were there 5 days or longer, they were listed. They get a permit to do this from the council. The council knows they are going out. We have such a vast number of such programs going on that, again from an economic point of view, it would have been impossible without tripling or quadrupling the cost. So, we worked with the counselors so the individual going out had to sign an affidavit. They would sign this statement, stamped by the council when received in the council office, then sent to the listing office. A troop camp list which is different in size and everything elsethis was sent to that camp leader. The different inspector would take half a day and spot-check any that were there, any in violation. We only had one during the years I was with the program. We only found one in flagrant violation. Any professional working in the camping field is interested in the welfare of children. Mr. SARASIN. When you refer to council, what council are you talking about? Dr. KIRK. They are geographic units. Mr. SARASIN. You are talking about Boy Scouts? Dr. KIRK. Or Girl Scouts or what have you. Mr. DANIELS. So, you do not recommend any specific exemption be given? Dr. KIRK. No. I think it can be worked out within the promulgation of the regulation. Mr. DANIELS. On behalf of the committee, I want to express our sincere thanks. The next meeting of the committee will be tomorrow morning in room 2175. The committee will stand adjourned until tomorrow morning. [Whereupon, at 2 p.m. the subcommittee recessed, to reconvene the following day.] YOUTH CAMP SAFETY ACT THURSDAY, JUNE 13, 1974 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, OF THE COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND LABOR, Washington, D.C. The subcommittee met at 10 a.m., pursuant to recess, in room 2175, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Dominick V. Daniels (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding. Present: Representatives Daniels, Esch, Peyser, and Sarasin. Staff members present: Daniel H. Krivit, counsel; Joseph Alviani, counsel; Alexandra Kisla, clerk; and Denniese Medlin, legislative assistant. Mr. DANIELS. The Select Subcommittee on Labor will come to order. This morning we continue with the hearings on youth camp safety, and I wish to announce we have with us today representatives of the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare who were mandated in 1972 by Congress to make a full and complete investigation of the situation surrounding youth camps in this country. And so this morning we have with us Dr. Theodore Cooper, Deputy Secretary of HEW, who is accompanied by Frank Samuels, Deputy Assistant Secretary of Health Legislation, HEW; Dr. Bruce Dull, Assistant Director for the Program, Center for Disease Control; and Dr. J. Michael Lane, Center for Disease Control, HEW. I might state the following. We have this panel of witnesses, and the other witnesses who will appear are the contractor and subcontractor to whom HEW awarded the contract for a study and investigation. You may proceed. STATEMENT OF THEODORE COOPER, M.D., DEPUTY ASSISANT SECRETARY OF HEALTH, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH, EDUCATION, AND WELFARE, ACCOMPANIED BY FRANK E. SAMUEL, JR., DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR LEGISLATION (HEALTH); BRUCE DULL, M.D., ASSISTANT DIRECTOR FOR PROGRAM, CENTER FOR DISEASE CONTROL; AND J. MICHAEL LANE, M.D., CENTER FOR DISEASE CONTROL, HEW, ATLANTA, GA. Dr. COOPER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members of the subcommittee. I am here today to testify on summer youth camp safety, a matter which has been of congressional concern since hearings were first conducted by the 90th Congress. This subject raises issues in which the Department has a vital interest. |