We are not asking for this type of operating subsidy-the people of Washington and the operators here in Washington. We are just asking $75,000 so as to provide us a port, a pad, by which we may land our helicopters so that we can start service.

We are offering to do it without charge to the Government, without cost to the Government. But you cannot play football without a ootball, and you cannot have helicopter service without a heliport. Senator JORDAN. Thank you very much.

Does that conclude your testimony?

Mr. WHEELER. Yes, sir.

Senator JORDAN. Thank you. And I am sorry I did not hear the previous part of your testimony, but, as I said, I simply could not get

here.

Thank you very much.

Mr. WHEELER. Thank you.

Senator JORDAN. Mr. Wheeler, may I ask you just one question before you leave?

Do you think that a helicopter service can be provided in the city of Washington without a Government subsidy?

Mr. WHEELER. Yes, sir. My company is willing to do that, and we have offered to do this before the CAB for more than 2 years, now. We are somewhat of the grandfathers, here, since we have been operating here for 5 years in the area, and we have offered to do this, and we are still offering to do this.

Senator JORDAN. You think you can provide the proper service without a Government subsidy?

Mr. WHEELER. Yes, sir. We will not need Government subsidy. We will need cooperation and assistance from the scheduled airlines, just like they are doing in New York and in Los Angeles and San Francisco. That is a sharing of the fares, and so forth.

Senator JORDAN. You would not go to National Airport in this service; would you?

Mr. WHEELER. We would not expect very many poeple to fly from downtown Washington to National. I would not think anybody did

that.

Senator JORDAN. Because it is too quick?

Mr. WHEELER. Too quick.

On the other hand, people would want to go from Dulles to National, and the people would want to go from Dulles to downtown Washington, or they may want to go from downtown Washington to Friendship or downtown Baltimore. And we may stop at National going that way.

Senator JORDAN. Would you have to have a heliport out at National, also?

Mr. WHEELER. There is a heliport out at National.

There is a spot out there, and we have negotiated with people at Friendship, and we have a heliport at Friendship, and as a matter of fact, we have rights to land in downtown Baltimore to do this thing, and we have not finished our negotiation with the FAA for spots out at Dulles, but I am sure there will be a spot in a central location, and this is required. A fine central location is necessary in order that this thing be successful, and we will get it, I am sure, at National as well as at Dulles.

Senator JORDAN. Thank you. Thank you very much.

Is Mr. Paul Kirton present?

The staff informs me that Mr. Kirton has been unable to appear but that his statement has been received. It will appear at this point in the record.

(The statement of Mr. Kirton is as follows:)

PREPARED STATEMENT OF PAUL KIrton

Gentlemen my name is Paul Kirton. I am an attorney with the Department of Interior and my wife is a statistical clerk at the Department of Agriculture. I am here today to testify in opposition to HR 15024.

My wife and I are two of four persons in a car pool which must have some place to park in Washington. Each day we commute approximately 160 miles in order to work. Like most other employees in the Department of Agriculture and in the Land Programs of the Department of Interior, we are interested personally in agriculture and indulge in that occupation on our own time, therefore, necessarily, we must live at some distance from the city where public transportation is not available. Approximately 1,000 persons, including the riders in the various cars, use this heliport. It is vital to each of them in order to be able to make their livelihood as a government employee. They have no alternative transportation. This heliport is proposed as a luxury, an additoinal accomodation above and beyond those already available. In other words, at the expense of those who have no alternative, they want to take to give a more luxurious accommodation. This is why we are in opposition to this heliport. We represent only a few people but in the end product we represent some 200,000 work days a year for the United States Government which, in effect, has a far greater impact on our national economy and the vitality of our government than the few individuals who would actually need the heliport and could not live with the present existing accommodation.

In addition, other sites are available. Many cities have used the roofs of buildings for heliports. No good reason has been advanced to date why this could not be done in Washington and thus facilitate both needs. Thank you.

Senator JORDAN. Gerald Cullins, chairman of the Aviation Committee of the Metropolitan Washington Board of Trade, is our next witness.

STATEMENT OF GERALD R. CULLINS, CHAIRMAN, AVIATION COMMITTEE, METROPOLITAN WASHINGTON BOARD OF TRADE

Mr. CULLINS. Thank you, sir.

Senator JORDAN. We appreciate your being with us, and you may proceed as you wish.

Mr. CULLINS. We have also submitted our testimony, and in the interest of brevity, as suggested by the chairman I will not take the time to read our prepared testimony.

Being very brief, the Metropolitan Washington Board of Trade represents in excess of some 6,000 business firms and individuals in the entire area, here, which includes Virginia and the State of Maryland as well as the District of Columbia itself, the city of Washington.

And we have over the past 8 years equipped our stand on information as to the need of helicopter service in downtown Washington through a close association with the national trade units representing the aviation industry, with the Government bodies, the regulatory bodies, the FAA, the CAB, with many carriers, and with the aviation fraternity in toto, and it is our wish, Mr. Chairman, at this time, to reiterate what we consider to be a very, very healthy need, and a need of immediacy in the selection of a downtown heliport to service the complexities of the three airports as we know them here in this area.

We feel that the need here is every bit parallel in matter of necessity as it is in Los Angeles and in San Francisco, and in the city of New York.

The Metropolitan Washington Board of Trade pioneered and worked desperately hard for the location, for the building, of National Airport several years ago, pioneered and worked desperately hard on the location of the finest airport in the world, Dulles International Airport, and we are just as keen in our recommendation for the thinking of your committee, Mr. Chairman, that a downtown heliport be established just as soon as possible in the area for this market. Senator JORDAN. Thank you very much.

I will have your entire brief put in the record at this point. (The prepared statement is as follows:)

PREPARED STATEMENT OF GERALD R. CULLINS, CHAIRMAN, AVIATION COMMITTEE, METROPOLITAN WASHINGTON BOARD OF TRADE

My name is Gerald R. Cullins, and I am here today on behalf of the more than 6,000 members of the Metropolitan Washington Board of Trade. Mr. Chairman, we very much appreciate this opportunity to appear in support of H.R. 15024, a step that will provide an opportunity for the Nation's Capital to enjoy the benefits of a truly integrated air transportation system.

The proposal before the Committee embodies the twelfth site that has been proposed as a heliport in the past several years. These sites have not been ultimately made available because of the Prohibited Flight Zone in Downtown Washington; because some potential sites are under the control of Federal agencies who have other plans for the land; or because permission in some cases has been denied because of zoning regulations and other factors of probably land use. Our summation comes down to this:

First, we do not know of anyone who opposes the idea that helicopter service is needed and should be started in the Nation's Capital.

Second, we believe the site in this bill is well-located. It is in the center of a triangle formed by the Capitol, the Pentagon, and Downtown Washington. The Congress, the Executive Departments, representatives of foreign states, and people visiting our city for business and pleasure and staying in our fine hotels are the people to whom time-saving is tremendously important. They are the people who jam our airports.

They are the people, principally, who will use helicopters. Thousands of man-hours per month will be added to their productive time. Members of Congress and people in agencies such as the Department of Defense, the State Department, and even the Agriculture Department with its far-flung operations are in the kind of jobs to which helicopter service would be of special benefit. The proposed site is conveniently located among the points it will serve: Downtown, Washington National Airport, Dulles International Airport, and Friendship Airport.

Third, recent events make it clear that Washington Airport is a limited service airport. Four-engine jets are barred. It is projected that the demand for air service is increasing 20% per year or double in the next five years. Helicopter service is becoming increasingly important every day as a means of relieving an already congested situation.

Fourth, helicopter operators are virtually standing in line to get a crack at providing this service for the Nation's Capital. We feel assured that there is not only adequate demand for this service, but good, responsible carriers are available who want to provide quality service.

Fifth, while there are always some people opposed to progress for reasons that are frequently personal, we do not know of any objections to this bill based upon the questions of need, feasibility, demand, potential for growth, or the quality of service to be provided. These are the relevant questions.

While under the terms of this bill, the site cannot be used for over three years, we understand the operators of helicopter service are ready to assume this limitation. We agree with the idea that scheduled service from a temporary site will generate opportunities for relocation on a permanent basis.

Sixth, the U.S. Government has a 150 million dollar investment in the Finest Airport in the World at Dulles International. This beautiful facility represents

our National Capital to the people of this country and the world in a manner that does great credit to us all. International visitors, Heads of State and members of diplomatic services will make much greater use of this magnificant and im pressive American product if they can step into a helicopter and be downtown in eleven minutes. The same is true of domestic travelers to Washington. Certainly, the major domestic and international carriers will expand their service as a result of scheduled helicopter service and Dulles International Airport will realiz its potential as the gateway to the free world and take its rightful place as a symbol of national pride.

Mr. Chairman, we are not technical experts in the nuances of helicopter service, but The Metropolitan Washington Board of Trade does have a 76-year history of supporting projects that it believes will be a credit to the Nation's Capital; projects that clearly fill a need; projects that are economically feasible and projects whose benefits to the general public obviously outweigh any other costs or inconvenience. Helicopter service is just such a project, and we urge the Sub-committee to take steps to make this a reality.

Thank you.

Mr. CULLINS. Thank you, sir.

Senator JORDAN. Would you care to elaborate any further?

Mr. CULLINS. I think, in deference to the other gentlemen who have spoken here and with the inclusion of the testimony-needless to say we have explored this from every avenue-we have gone up and down the streets and the corridors and the byways and the highways of this entire area for a matter of 71⁄2 to 8 years, trying to locate an intown heliport, and I was often of the opinion that if the good Lord above was of the frame of mind to come back to this earth, and if He wants to land on a heliport in the city of Washington, He is going to have a very, very tough time coming in here.

And I think that in the selection of this site, the best brains and the best know-how from all levels and from all angles have been taken into consideration, and we highly recommend and solicit for your thoughts and consideration that this particular location be agreed to. Senator JORDAN. Thank you very much, and I can assure you that this subcommittee and the full committee will give very serious consideration to this.

I know there is a tremendous need for better transportation, and particularly in the two outlying areas, Dulles and Friendship.

I can assure you that will get full and sympathetic hearings.
Thank you very much

Mr. CULLINS. Thank you, sir.

Senator JORDAN. Is there anybody else that would like to make a statement at this time?

I would be glad to hear you, if you would like to.

Yes, ma'am. I will be glad to hear you.

Give your name, please, ma'am, and whom you represent.

STATEMENT OF MRS. GEORGE IDELSON, CHAIRMAN, COMMITTEE ON LOW FLYING AIRCRAFT, PALISADES CITIZENS ASSOCIATION OF WASHINGTON

Mrs. IDELSON. I am Mrs. George Idelson, and I am chairman of the Committee on Aircraft of the Palisades Citizens Association of Washington.

We had requested permission to be heard and were told we could submit a statement but since you invited testimony, I would just like to say very briefly that more than 2,000 members of our association

who live in the western part of the District and are subjected every day to hundreds of very loud and low-flying jetplanes over our headsjet and propeller planes-feel that we should do everything that we can to quickly promote the accessibility of Dulles and Friendship for greater use of these jetplanes.

And, therefore, we strongly support this bill and hope that there will be very quick introduction cf helicopter service, because the time getting out to those airports seems to be the biggest discouragement in use, and we hope that the aircraft companies would be instituting more service out of those airports.

Senator JORDAN. Thank you very much. We appreciate your statement, also.

Is there anyone else who wishes to be heard?

I have a statement from Joseph Robertson, Assistant Secretary for Administration of the Department of Agriculture.

I note that Mr. Robertson earlier sent us a communication, dated October 5, which contains a resolution of the USDA Employee Council. I also direct the staff to place in this record any other statements which may be received.

(The exhibits are as follows:)

Hon. JENNINGS RANDOLPH,

Chairman, Committee on Public Works, EU.S. Senate.

DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE,
Washington, D.C., October 5, 1966.

DEAR MR. CHAIRMAN: H.R. 15024, a bill to amend section 8 of the Public Buildings Act of 1959 to authorize the Administrator of General Services to lease certain property in the District of Columbia, which has been passed by the House and is now pending before your committee for consideration, would designate certain space now being used by more than 2,400 Department of Agriculture employees as a parking lot, for use as a heliport.

It is our understanding that hearings before the Subcommittee on Public Buildings and Grounds are scheduled to begin October 11, 1966. This Department would appreciate the opportunity to present our views on the measure. Enclosed is a copy of a resolution adopted by the USDA Employee Council which represents approximately 10,000 Department employees.

Sincerely yours,

JOSEPH M. ROBERTSON, Assistant Secretary for Administration.

RESOLUTION BY THE USDA EMPLOYEE COUNCIL

Whereas the United States Congress is now considering a proposal to establish a temporary heliport on a site located at 12th Street and Main Avenue which is being used as a parking lot by the USDA Welfare and Recreation Association, and Whereas public transportation is inadequate to provide the necessary service in the event private transportation for USDA employees is curtailed, and

Whereas in recent years the parking situation in the immediate area of the Department has become increasingly critical, and

Whereas pressure on available parking will increase with the continuing construction and concentration of Federal facilities in the area, and

Whereas the USDA Welfare and Recreation Association has invested a substantial amount of money to permit the use of this site for parking, and

Whereas employees of the Department are extremely concerned as to any further reduction in available parking facilities: Be it hereby

Resolved, That the USDA Employee Council do respectfully and urgently request the Director of Personnel to take all possible action to preserve this last remaining private parking lot in the area for use by Department employees.