to send in our own planners and accountants, because those universities never had dealt with the factor of per student cost. I think, after our having gone into the universities and finding out the proper basis for the contracts we were making, the result was that they did more work in getting on a really sound financial basis than they had before, in the matter of cost. Now, I think that if you are going to examine or talk about the cost of education-I think you would have to go into many things, such as freedom from taxation, and so forth. I do not believe that many colleges had precise knowledge of their costs. Senator SALTONSTALL. Well, I was just thinking. It costs $650 per student-about? Secretary FORRESTAL. Yes. Senator SALTONSTALL. At Harvard, it is about $900 per student, of which the student pays $450. Secretary FORRESTAL. Well, comparing this to MIT, a highly specialized graduate school, they would need, in the first place, a higher level of teaching before we could fully utilize them. A higher level will be required than you will get in the average liberal-arts college. The CHAIRMAN. Well, are there any universities or colleges that could take your naval students and give them the courses that they will get at the postgraduate school? Secretary FORRESTAL. A very limited number. MIT occurs to me offhand. The CHAIRMAN. In other words, among civilian establishments there is nothing comparable, in the present set-up, to the postgraduate courses and the discipline and the contacts that you require for the education of your naval officers? Secretary FORRESTAL. I think that is right. Admiral DENFELD. That is correct, Senator Walsh, especially respecting the general line course, there is nothing. The general line course is the largest course of the postgraduate school, and there is no college that would give the students a course of that nature. Senator MYERS. May I ask a question? The CHAIRMAN. Senator Myers. Senator MYERS. Are there any basic qualifications that a man must have before he becomes eligible for this competitive examination? Admiral JOHNSON You mean prerequisites? Senator MYERS. Yes. Admiral JOHNSON. He must be a high-school graduate; he must have a physical examination and the selection board would look into his record. The CHAIRMAN. That is what is known as screening, Senator. Senator MYERS. I know; but is that done before the examination or after that screening? Admiral JoHNSON. That is done after he takes the examination. Senator MYERS. Then, the only qualification that is necessary for a boy to become eligible to take these competitive examinations is that he must pass the physical? Admiral JOHNSON. Yes, sir. Senator MYERS. And then he must be a high-school graduate. Is that regardless of what section he is in? Admiral JOHNSON. That is right. Senator MYERS. Then, Admiral, when you said that he takes a competitive examination, you really mean a qualifying examination? Admiral JOHNSON. It is competitive in a way, because the selection. board gives a weight to the marks, in selecting him. It gives weight to the marks which he made in this examination. Senator MYERS. Then, it is not similar to the examination the boys take to enter Annapolis. Those boys, if they are congressional appointees, qualify through an examination and are admitted. Admiral JOHNSON. That is right. Senator MYERS. But you do not select those who have passed the examination with the highest average among those who may pass the examination? Admiral JOHNSON. For the Naval Academy? Senator MYERS. No; for this. Admiral JoHNSON. That is correct. Senator MYERS. Therefore, in taking that examination, that means, of course, that they are qualifying. Admiral JoHNSON. Yes, sir. Senator MYERS. And then they go before the screening board. Senator MYERS. Then, it could not be called a competitive examination, because those who have finished with the highest averages are not necessarily the ones who are selected? Admiral JOHNSON. Well, there is weight given to the examination. It is 4 out of 10 points. Senator MYERS. Of course, I surmised that, that the average or mark is taken into consideration. But it is not competitive in the sense that we use the word, in the sense that those with the highest averages are admitted. Admiral JOHNSON. That is right. Senator MYERS. And the screening board is composed of whom? Admiral JoHNSON. It'is composed of an educator, a businessman, and one naval officer. Senator MYERS. And they carefully consider the applicant. Admiral JOHNSON. They interview each one of these boys and he has to bring his record from the school, the marks that he has made in the school, his extracurricular activities. He gets a weight on his high-school record and on his general interests, for example, interests which might be desirable professionally; also on the appearance he has, the impression he makes before this board. Each of these is treated separately. The CHAIRMAN. The system of selection is more like that required for admission to the Coast Guard Academy at New London? Admiral JOHNSON. Yes, sir. The CHAIRMAN. Than Annapolis or West Point. Admiral JOHNSON. Yes, sir. Senator MYERS. Now, Admiral, does the boy have any choice in the selection of his own college? Admiral JOHNSON. Yes, sir; they have. We give them a certificate of membership in this program-it might be called-which entitles him to enter any one of the 52 NROTC colleges if he is satisfactory to them. Senator MYERS. So, a boy from the Middle West might desire to come east or a boy from the East might choose to go to the Middle West? Admiral JOHNSON. Yes, sir; he must be acceptable to the university. Senator MYERS. Then, after you have approved him and given him his certificate, then he still would have to be accepted? Admiral JOHNSON. By the university; yes, sir. Senator MYERS. There, again, they would review his educational qualification? Admiral JOHNSON. I think they would review his high-school records. Senator MYERS. Or there might be a question of space, whether they can accommodate him; so, then, the college also has some discretion? Admiral JOHNSON. Yes, sir. Senator MYERS. In admitting such boys as they desire? Admiral JOHNSON. Yes, sir. Admiral DENFELD. It is quite possible, Senator Myers, that the boy would not get the college of his first choice. It might be that he would want to go to some particular college and the number of students that have already been enrolled might prevent him from going there. Senator MYERS. What happens in that case? Admiral DENFELD. In that event, he would have to seek some other school. Senator MYERS. Has any sort of consideration been given to the question of whether the boy should attend his college within his own State? Admiral JOHNSON. It is covered in this bill. It must be in accordance with such regulations as may be prescribed by the Secretary. We would like to see the boy attending a college that would be restricted to within 500 or 800 miles from his home, to cut down, for one thing, the transportation cost. Also, there is the factor that some of the colleges concerned prefer to take only boys from their home State, and some colleges prefer to take a cross section of the United States among the student body. Senator MYERS. Of course, I presume you have selected colleges with dormitory facilities, and so forth; what we call day colleges? Admiral JOHNSON. Yes, sir. Senator SALTONSTALL. Mr. Chairman, may I ask a question? Senator SALTONSTALL. I mean, may I ask you a question? Senator SALTONSTALL. Mr. Chairman, in your experience as a Senator, now that the appointments to the Naval Academy by the Senators and by the Congressmen are going to be, in the future, just a little bit more than half of the total number of appointees, what is going to be the reaction of the average Member of the Senate and the average Congressman not to be able to appoint these men to the various NROTC's? Are they going to stand for it? The CHAIRMAN. I think they will recognize that the situation is entirely different, that there is a different procedure than for the people appointed to the Academy. Senator MYERS. Don't you think, Mr. Chairman-off the record. The CHAIRMAN. Off the record. (Discussion was had outside the record.) Senator MYERS. Does this bill increase the number of congressional appointments to Annapolis? The CHAIRMAN. No; until we increase the number at Annapolis to 5,000. Admiral JOHNSON. Which will not be until the facilities can accommodate them. The CHAIRMAN. We will then have the appointments increased. The CHAIRMAN. Off the record. (Discussion was had outside the record.) Senator BROOKS. Mr. Chairman, I have a question. The CHAIRMAN. Go ahead. Senator BROOKS. This is the first time, is it not, that we have provided a greater distribution of opportunity to the States, is it not? Regardless of how large the State was heretofore they have had the same number of appointees to Annapolis; but this does give a wider distribution of opportunity? Admiral DENFELD. Yes, sir. This is the same system used in the V-12 program that was very successful. (Discussion was had outside the record.) The CHAIRMAN. Admiral Johnson, will you go through the bill section by section? Admiral JOHNSON. Yes, sir. May I show it from my chart, first, Senator? The CHAIRMAN. Certainly. Admiral DENFELD. Senator Walsh, before you do that, Admiral Nimitz could not come up because he was sick. He had a short prepared statement and he thought that it would be highly desirable if I gave it for him. The CHAIRMAN. Very well, that may be done. You may proceed with Admiral Nimitz' statement. I am sorry you must leave, Mr. Secretary. I thank you for your statement here. STATEMENT OF FLEET ADM. CHESTER W. NIMITZ, UNITED STATES NAVY, BY ADMIRAL LOUIS E. DENFELD Admiral DENFELD. This bill embodies a program for the education of naval officers based on a principle which I believe to be thoroughly sound. The principle is that men trained at civilian colleges and universities and men trained at the Naval Academy can come into the Navy on an equal footing, have a common experience of active duty, and be merged into a body of officers sharing the strength of their various backgrounds and equally dedicated to the high traditions of the naval service. If the fleet is to be manned, it is necessary to supplement the output of the Naval Academy from other sources. It is also, in my opinion, desirable. I know something at first hand of the types of men who can be obtained by the Navy from the universities, as well as from the Academy. It was my privilege to command one of the six original units of the NROTC established in 1926. I worked with students at the University of California, taught them the rudiments of naval science, kept in touch with many of them, and have been proud of their records in the Naval Reserve during the war. Because of Because of my conviction that the NROTC was an effective instrument for training naval officers, I supported, while Chief of the Bureau of Navigation, the plan which increased the number of units from 8 to 27. Thousands of graduates of these 27 NROTC units were under my command during the war. They performed magnificently. The NROTC has proved itself in every way to be a dependable program of officer training, and I am happy that the Congress, sharing this view, has recently authorized an increase which substantially doubles its size. I take it for granted that no one seriously questions the value of the Naval Academy as an institution for the education and professional training of naval officers. Of approximtely 150,000 officers under my command in the Pacific, about 17,000 were Academy graduates. They were indispensable, as they have been in every previous war. They carry forward a tradition which gives life and power and pride to the Navy as a whole. During the war they imparted that tradition to their shipmates from the Naval Reserve, at the same time that they learned from those associates new technical methods, greater breadth of interest, and unfamiliar attitudes toward many familiar problems. In previous discussions of this bill, the question has been raised as to the relative competence, as naval officers, of graduates of the Naval Academy and graduates of civilian universities. Such a question misses the point. It assumes that because two types of educational experience are different, one must be superior. It is like asking whether a good half-back is a better football player than a good tackle. The point is that a team is strengthened rather than weakened by having members with different qualifications and different aptitudes. A graduate of the University of California or of Princeton can be quite as valuable to the Navy as a graduate of the Naval Academy, and the Navy as a whole will benefit by having both on the same team. The peacetime Navy, as it is now being reorganized under recent legislation, will be such a team. We are now in the process of transfering to the Regular Navy thousands of Reserve officers who have proved their competence in the war. I believe it will be a strong Navy, carrying forward with undiminished vigor the high tradition of the past, and approaching new problems with flexibility of mind that comes from variety of experience and of outlook. The Holloway Board plan, embodied in this bill, will perpetuate the advantages of bringing into the Navy men with civilian as well as strictly naval backgrounds. The plan achieves this result without introducing any untested innovations. It continues the 4-year course at the Naval Academy, with midshipment selected by the time-honored custom of congressional appointments. It continues the NROTC, with candidates chosen by the war-tested process of selection by Nation-wide examinations and approval of regional boards. It gives aviation candidates the type of education and flight training discovered to be most effective during the war, and puts them into each stage of training at the proper age to gain the greatest benefits. This bill has been characterized as one of the most important presented to the Congress by the Navy Department in recent years. Its 89105-46 |