for their present position, plus salary $12,500, plus necessary expenses. Members of the Commission appointed from private life are to receive $50 per diem, when engaged in the performance of the Commission duties, plus all necessary expenses.

The Commission is vested with the power to approve and fix the salaries of such personnel as it deems it may need, in accordance with the provisions of the Civil Service and Classification Act of 1923, as amended. The bill carries an authorization for the appropriation of any funds which may be necessary to carry out the provisions of this act. In other words, this section of the law leaves it up to the Commission itself to request the funds needed to carry on its work; and to the Appropriations Committees of the House and Senate and finally the whole Congress, to pass upon the amounts to be expended in connection with the work of the Commission.

I want you to note that section 9 provides for this Commission to be a temporary one, and explicitly sets forth that the Commission shall cease to exist 90 days after it files its report with the Congress. This report must be filed within 10 days after the Eighty-first Congress is convened and organized in January of 1949.

It shall be the duty of the Commission to study and investigate the present organization and methods of operation of all departments, bureaus, agencies, boards, commissions, offices, independent establishments, and instrumentalities of the executive branch of the Government, to determine what changes therein are necessary in their opinion to accomplish the purpose as set forth in section 1 of this act. The Commission is authorized to hold such hearings at such times and places, to take such testimony as the Commission may deem advisable, and to secure directly from any executive department or other agency of the Government, information, suggestions, statistics or records that may be required in its work.

At first blush this bill may appear to provide for the Commission to take over many of the duties and privileges, and much of the work of regularly established congressional committees, and especially the House and Senate Committees on Expenditures in the Executive Departments. However, I believe a closer study of the measure will convince you that if this Commission is established and functions properly it will be of great aid and assistance to these and other committees of Congress, and will in no way supersede or interfere with the functions and work of any congressional committee.

No Members of Congress know better than the membership of this committee how impossible it is for any congressional committee to make a complete over-all study, survey, and investigation of all the various agencies and governmental divisions making up the executive branch; and it is my sincere belief that with the establishment of a commission such as provided for in H. R. 775, the Congress would be taking a well-advised step toward obtaining, for its own use, the over-all, comprehensive and necessary information it must have as a foundation upon which to base specific legislation.

In other words, I want to make clear that this Commission, if established by law, will have authority only to study, survey and investigate the executive branch of the Government and then make a report to the Congress of its findings and recommendations.

Only the Congress has the power to legislate, and the Congress may enact laws to carry the findings and recommendations of the Commission into effect, or ignore them-as the Congress sees fit.

The Commission's findings and recommendations may also be of great benefit to the President, for from them he may obtain information and suggestions that will be of benefit to him in governmental reorganization matters.

I would further like to point out that the work of the Commission will in no way interfere with the usual congressional activities. While this Commission is at work the various congressional committees will be entirely free to continue their usual work of investigation and study of the activities and functions of the various agencies coming under their jurisdiction. The Congress can legislate change in the various departments and agencies of the executive branch, or in their functions, just as the Congress has always done. The President may order departmental reorganization just as he has always done.

In other words, there will be no interference or conflict with the work of Congress or with the reorganization powers of the President, should this Commission be established.

A companion bill to this measure, identical in every way, was introduced in the Senate by Senator Lodge of Massachusetts, as S. 164. Hearings were held on that before the Senate Committee on Expenditures, beginning in March of this year. After due consideration the committee reported the measure favorably. S. 164 is now on the Senate calendar and is scheduled for carly floor consideration. I predict its approval by the Senate.

I believe the need for the establishment of this Commission, and for the study and investigation provided by this legislation, is apparent to all. Certainly those of us who serve in the Congress, and especially those of us who serve on this committee, know better than anyone else of the fantastic growth which has taken place in the executive branch of the Federal Government during the last few decades.

We also know how impossible it is for this or any other committee of the Congress to devote the necessary time to an over-all study and investigation of the entire structure of the executive branch of the Government.

We realize, I am sure, how impossible it is for the President of the United States, either directly or through delegating authority to others, to give the time or detailed study to the reorganization of the whole executive branch of government which would make it more efficient and less costly.

All of you who served on this committee recall the testimony of one of the high officials of the Comptroller General's Office early this year in which, in answer to a question, he stated the Comptroller General's Office did not know how many bureaus, divisions,. and agencies of government existed in the executive branch.

Later, after considerable inquiry, our committee was able to obtain a large chart-I believe you have one here in the room somewherelisting in small type the many hundreds of different divisions of government in that branch.

What is needed more than anything else today is to have a commission such as the one provided for in this bill to take an over-all

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look at our executive branch of the Government-it's services, activities, and functions-and furnish the President with its findings of facts, along with its recommendations as to how duplicated efforts, overlapping activities, and similar functions can be simplified, consolidated, or eliminated.

In order to save your time I will not outline here a mass of detailed information and testimony to support this measure-most of which has already been given in the Senate and is contained in the hearing on S. 164, a copy of which has been furnished each member of the committee. Instead, let me emphasize that if this billor S. 164 is enacted into law, and the type of commission I have in mind is appointed, I am convinced many millions of dollars-yes, hundreds of millions of dollars-can be saved in the cost of operation of the Government without in any way injuring the services rendered the people, but, instead, perhaps bettering them.

No man in Congress is too big to serve on this Commission. Certainly no private citizen could render a greater service to his Government and to his fellow citizens than to accept an appointment on this Commission and to give to his country the benefit of his knowledge and wisdom.

The appointees should be persons in whom the Congress, the President, and the general public have full faith and confidence-individuals whose very names will lend prestige to the Commission and guarantee that its findings and recommendations will be worthy of the serious consideration of the new Eighty-first Congress.

In drafting this legislation, which I believe speaks for itself much better than I have been able to speak for it this morning, every effort was made to eliminate any possibility of partisanship entering into the work of the Commission.

That is the reason why the bill provides, not only that Congress, the President, and the general public shall be represented on the Commission by an equal number of members of each major political party, but also that the Commission shall not make its report until after the 1948 elections are over and a new Congress has not only been elected, but has convened, and a new Prsidential terms will be at hand.

As I have previously pointed out, the establishment and functioning of this Commission will in no way interfere with the ordinary and regular activities of the Congress and its legislative committees, or with the President in the exercise of his prerogatives under the Reorganization Act.

This Commission is designed only to serve the Congress, the President, and the people, and, as far as the Congress is concerned, I believe most of us can agree that we need all the expert aid and help we can get in our work.

The legislative branch of the Government has been reorganized and streamlined by the Congress itself. The time is long overdue for a reorganization and streamlining of the executive branch of the Government. It is my considered judgment that the enactment of this bill and the establishment of this Commission will be a long step toward that necessary and beneficial end.

I shall be happy to submit myself to any questions any members of this committee may desire to ask.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any questions of Representative Brown? If not, thank you, Representative Brown.

Our next witness is Mr. Lewis Meriam, vice president of the Brookings Institution.

STATEMENT OF LEWIS MERIAM, VICE PRESIDENT, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION

Mr. MERIAM. I presume I have been asked to appear before your committee because of past work done by the Brookings Institution in the field covered by H. R. 775. My testimony will be based largely on that experience.

I should at the outset express thorough approval of the declaration of policy contained in section 1 of the bill. The need is great to promote economy, efficiency, and improved service in the transaction of public business. The opportunities for improvement are far-reaching, and success in the endeavor will advance the efficiency of the whole

economy.

Our experience at the institution indicates clearly that any study designed to promote economy and efficiency in the National Government must give thorough consideration to curtailing or abolishing existing services, activities, or functions, and to defining and limiting those which are to be continued.

In other words, of the five devices outlined in section 1 of the bill, the fourth and fifth providing for abolishing, curtailing, and limiting are the most important. Consolidating related services and eliminating duplication and overlapping are of secondary importance from the standpoint of effecting substantial savings.

Decisions with respect to curtailing and eliminating, moreover, must come first, and then what is to remain must be so reorganized as to operate effectively with a minimum of waste.

Section 10 (a) of the bill directs the Commission to investigate methods of operation of the agencies, and the first device named under section 1 is limiting expenditures to the lowest amount consistent with the efficient performance of services, activities, and functions. This by implication involves methods. Lowest cost can only be attained by the use of the most efficient procedures and techniques.

I do not wish to understate the importance of studying them, but I wish to stress the magnitude of the task of studying all the methods of all the agencies within the time limits prescribed for the Commission. Within those time limits I doubt whether it would be feasible. to recruit a sufficient staff to do the job well.

I would, therefore, recommend that the Commission have discretion as to the extent to which it studies procedures and techniques in detail. I would recommend to the Commission that it make such studies only with respect to agencies which have large expenditures where methods and procedures are a vital factor in determining expense.

Under this bill the Commission will be a temporary agency with a life of less than 2 years. If it is to organize and get into action promptly, I do not think it would be practicable to have appointments made competitively under the Civil Service Act.

It would, in my judgment, be undesirable should the Commission be staffed by men and women with civil-service status who would be

drawn from the executive agencies and who would have hopes of going back to those agencies.

In limiting, curtailing, or abolishing services, functions, and activities the staff must be competent, unbiased, and independent. I would go no further than to authorize the Civil Service Commission to approve or reject on the basis of qualifications any person nominated for the staff of the reorganization committee by the director of its staff.

I would give the reorganization committee unrestricted power to select the director of its staff.

Since the primary objective of the Commission would be to recommend limiting, curtailing, or abolishing services, functions, and activities, I would not have representatives of the executive agencies as members of the Commission. They belong in the witness box and not on the jury or on the bench.

The Commission should give them full opportunity to be heard and present briefs, but I think placing them on the Commission itself would result in divisions and conflicts.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any questions of Mr. Meriam? If not, thank you, Mr. Meriam.

Our next witness is Mr. Carter W. Atkins, executive director of the Connecticut Public Expenditure Council.

STATEMENT OF CARTER W. ATKINS, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, CONNECTICUT PUBLIC EXPENDITURE COUNCIL

Mr. ATKINS. One of the most necessary things that I know of today is a thoroughgoing reorganization of the executive branch of the Federal Government. That necessity in greater or lesser degree becomes obvious to the thoughtful reader of the day-by-day current happenings in Government and perhaps from his personal contact with some phase of it but it becomes increasingly significant upon careful examination of its present great scope of activity and high level of cost.

Therefore, I am glad to appear before your committee and express the support of our organization to the purposes and objectives sought in H. R. 775. I am sure that I express the wholehearted feeling of the great majority of citizens and taxpayers of our State when I say that we want to urge this Congress to put our Government on the highest possible plane of operating efficiency.

We all know that major wars cause a great expansion of the National Government and that history has demonstrated the need for serious action to reduce government to the needs of peacetime functions and activities as promptly as possible. We are now almost 2 years from the cessation of our last hostilities and to the average citizen and taxpayer we seem to be operating on a wartime basis.

Certainly the demands upon the taxpayers' pocketbook show little or no change for the better. It should be remembered too that State and local governments were on a reduced basis during the war and that their costs must inevitably increase even to take care of their prewar services. We would hope, therefore, that we have arrived at a point when both the legislative and the executive branches of our Government will take the necessary steps to eliminate every activity