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1 Pensions awarded to parents or brothers and sisters may be less than these amounts in accordance with the provisions of this act.

The CHAIRMAN. You spoke about the Social Security Act and oldage pensions. Are you in favor of placing the ex-service men under the Social Security Act and old-age pension laws here?

Mr. HOBART. Provided they have suffered no line-of-service disabilities: yes. I do not hold myself entitled to any preference over other citizens.

The CHAIRMAN. In other words, you would take them out from under compensation altogether?

Mr. HOBART. Precisely.

The CHAIRMAN. I believe that is all, unless some of these other members of the committee want to ask you some questions.

Mr. JARMAN. Do I get the idea of your organization to be this: The man who suffered disabilities actually in the line of duty-you want to do everything for him?

Mr. HOBART. Yes.

Mr. JARMAN. But the man who suffered no disabilities, you do not want him to have any preferred treatment over the average citizen? Mr. HOBART. None, whatever.

Mr. JARMAN. He is just like everybody else?

Mr. HOBART. Yes.

Mr. JARMAN. That is what I wanted to get clear. I thank you. The CHAIRMAN. Anyone else desire to ask any questions?

Mrs. ROGERS. May I ask one more question in line with yours? Do you not think that a good many men lose their chance for perhaps a higher education, that would have given them a better opportunity to compete with other men?

Mr. HOBART. I definitely do not.

Mrs. ROGERS. I know of instances where men went to the war and came back and found their businesses gone.

The CHAIRMAN. In that connection, have we not, on the average, more educated people out of work, in proportion to the number of them, than we have uneducated people?

Mrs. ROGERS. I have not the figure.

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The CHAIRMAN. That would be a rather interesting comparison, if you had it. I am not using that as an argument, but the reaction I get from the country, if my mail is any criterion of the mail that passes over the desk of the average Congressman, the percentage of educated people out of work is probably greater than the percentage of uneducated people, compared to the number of them.

Mrs. ROGERS. Relief does not help those people, however.
The CHAIRMAN. No; it does not.

Mr. JARMAN. I want to ask him one more question, if I may
The CHAIRMAN. All right, proceed.

Mr. JARMAN. You said you suffered no disability, and I am in the same boat. Do you not think, however, it is entirely possible that both of us, and all of those who are in the same category with us, may be, because of that service, are weaker physically than we would be if we had not indulged in that service?

Mr. HOBART. Not at all; no.

Mr. JARMAN. You do not think that is possible?

Mr. HOBART. I had a perfectly grand time overseas.

Mr. JARMAN. So did I. But you do not think it is possible

Mr. HOBART. I do not think it is likely; no.

Mr. JARMAN. With that exposure to which we were subject might have caused some defect-not in our case, but somebody else out there

Mr. HOBART. On the contrary, I think it hardened us.

Mr. JARMAN. You think it what?

Mr. HOBART. Hardened us.

Mr. JARMAN. Hardened us?

Mr. HOBART. Yes, sir.

Mr. JARMAN. That is probably true from one viewpoint, but as you said, a while ago—and I am in the same fix, because neither one of us are doctors-I cannot agree with you that it is not possible that service

Mr. HOBART. In some cases, possibly; yes.

Mr. JARMAN. And it might have had organic effects that we do not know and no doctor could tell us about.

Mr. HOBART. On the other hand, do you not think it likely that those defects would have shown up long before now?

Mr. JARMAN. Probably, and not directly traceable to the service, and probably no doctor would ever think of it. My idea is that probably no doctor can trace it to the service.

Mr. HOBART. I just do not hold that view.

Mr. JARMAN. I just wanted to get your idea.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Hobart, do you not think a great many men lost their positions or gave up their positions, and came back and found not only found their positions filled by somebody else, but found themselves shaken loose, we will say, from their original bases, to such an extent that it took them a long time to get reallocated, that some of them never did get back what they would have had, if they had not been taken into the service?

Mr. HOBART. I believe that is a fair statement. I think there was probably a year or two of very difficult readjustment for most of these men, and I think it meant their success. We had good business, if you will recall, and men were being absorbed in industry, reabsorbed in industry very rapidly. In fact, there was an acute labor shortage in 1919 and 1920, if you recall.

Mrs. ROGERS. I am going to quote Calvin Coolidge, when he was President. I never made a report to him, or discussed disabled veterans, or veterans anyway, without his saying to me, "I suppose we have no conception of the mental strain that those men were under." He certainly wanted people to work and believed in giving them all he could, that was his viewpoint.

The CHAIRMAN. I think that will be all, Mr. Hobart.

Mr. HOBART. I thank you very much, sir. I appreciate the opportunity to be heard.

The CHAIRMAN. We are glad to have had you.

It is now 15 minutes of 12. Our next witness is the representative of the Veterans' Administration. I have one little matter that I would like to take up, and I am going to suggest, General Hines, if it suits you all right, we will hear you tomorrow.

General HINES. That will be perfectly all right, Mr. Chairman. I am at the disposal of the committee. I believe it would be better if I should have more time than I would probably have this morning, when I start, so there will be some continuity in what I would like to say to the committee.

The CHAIRMAN. Then we will go into executive session and adjourn until tomorrow morning at 10:30.

(Thereupon a recess was taken in the hearing until 10:30 a. m., Thursday, Mar. 11, 1937.)

TO AMEND CERTAIN LAWS AND VETERANS' REGULATIONS AFFECTING WORLD WAR VETERANS AND THEIR DEPENDANTS

THURSDAY, MARCH 11, 1937

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

COMMITTEE ON WORLD WAR VETERANS' LEGISLATION,

Washington, D. C.

The committee met at 10:30 a. m., Hon. John E. Rankin (chairman) presiding.

The CHAIRMAN. The committee will come to order.

On yesterday I reported out a bill-I have forgotten the number now, but the clerk will insert it-on misconduct cases; and in this. morning's Post there is an article quoting the Surgeon General of the Bureau of Public Health as saying: "One-half of all syphilis infections have been acquired innocently." I want that statement to go in this record, so we may have it for reference when the time comes to debate this bill on the floor of the House, or to defend it elsewhere.

My contention has been that not only have these diseases been innocently acquired or contracted in a great many instances, but that disabilities have been attributed to them that were produced by other causes. But if we needed anything to justify reporting out this measure, certainly this statement from the head of the Bureau of Public Health would be sufficient.

We have with us this morning the Director of Veterans' Affairs, Gen. Frank T. Hines, who will make his own statement, then he will answer any questions that the members of the committee desire to ask him. General Hines.

STATEMENT OF GEN. FRANK T. HINES, DIRECTor of veterRANS' AFFAIRS, VETERANS' ADMINISTRATION

General HINES. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, the matter that is now before you has developed a number of questions on the part of the committee which, in looking over the testimony, would indicate that it might be advisable to review somewhat, briefly and without boring you, the history of legislation, and particularly that which has a bearing upon the bill which I am sure the committee will give the most serious thought to, that is, the question of further liberalizing payments to the dependents of veterans of the World War. When the United States entered the World War, it was thought by those in charge and also by Congress, and many outstanding patriotic citizens, that we should depart from our pension system, which, over a long period of years had developed many troubles along the road. And so there developed the thought that all of the men and women.

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