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COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY

DON FUQUA, Florida, Chairman

ROBERT A. ROE, New Jersey
MIKE MCCORMACK, Washington
GEORGE E. BROWN, JR., California
JAMES H. SCHEUER, New York
RICHARD L. OTTINGER, New York
TOM HARKIN, Iowa

JIM LLOYD, California

JEROME A. AMBRO, New York

MARILYN LLOYD BOUQUARD, Tennessee
JAMES J. BLANCHARD, Michigan
DOUG WALGREN, Pennsylvania
RONNIE G. FLIPPO, Alabama

DAN GLICKMAN, Kansas
ALBERT GORE, JR., Tennessee
WES WATKINS, Oklahoma
ROBERT A. YOUNG, Missouri
RICHARD C. WHITE, Texas

HAROLD L. VOLKMER, Missouri
DONALD J. PEASE, Ohio

HOWARD WOLPE, Michigan

NICHOLAS MAVROULES, Massachusetts BILL NELSON, Florida

BERYL ANTHONY, JR., Arkansas

STANLEY N. LUNDINE, New York

ALLEN E. ERTEL, Pennsylvania

KENT HANCE, Texas

KF27 .539 1979 Vol.5

JOHN W. WYDLER, New York
LARRY WINN, JR., Kansas
BARRY M. GOLDWATER, JR., California
HAMILTON FISH, JR., New York
MANUEL LUJAN, JR., New Mexico
HAROLD C. HOLLENBECK, New Jersey
ROBERT K. DORNAN, California
ROBERT S. WALKER, Pennsylvania
EDWIN B. FORSYTHE, New Jersey
KEN KRAMER, Colorado

WILLIAM CARNEY, New York
ROBERT W. DAVIS, Michigan
TOBY ROTH, Wisconsin
DONALD LAWRENCE RITTER,
Pennsylvania

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CONTENTS

Jack H. Gibbons, director, the environmental center, University of

Tennessee, Knoxville....

Beno Sternlicht, board chairman and technical director, Mechanical
Technical, Inc., Latham, N. Y....

Ronald D. Visness, associate director, Minnesota Energy Agency-

Dave Webb, vice president, Washington operations, Gas Research

Institute.

Dr. L. Robert Lawrence, director, Gas Research Institute.
Dr. George W. Wiener, manager of the Energy Systems Division,
Westinghouse Electric Corp., research and development center,
Pittsburgh, Pa...

Glen Smith, venture manager of fuel cells, Englehard Industries,
Division of Englehard Minerals and Chemicals Corp.--
Bill Podolny, vice president, power systems, United Technology,
accompanied by H. Hollister Cantus, manager, energy programs,
power systems division, United Technologies--

Sheldon A. Butt, president, Solar Energy Industries Association,

accompanied by Anthony W. Adler, Government relations director,

Solar Energy Industries Association__

5. "U.S. Energy Demand: Some Low Energy Futures," Science, April 14,
1978.

736

9. The Good News about Energy, Counsel on Environmental Quality-
1979___

801

1980 DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY AUTHORIZATION

WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 21, 1979

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY,

SUBCOMMITTEE ON ENERGY DEVELOPMENT AND APPLICATIONS,

Washington, D.C. The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:10 a.m., in room 2325, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Richard L. Ottinger, chairman of the subcommittee, presiding.

Mr. OTTINGER. The subcommittee on Energy Development and Applications will resume its hearings on the DOE budget.

I am going to concentrate today on conservation, primarily on the buildings and industrial areas. And we are sorry that Omi Walden cannot be with us, but we will look forward to hearing from her tomorrow on the conservation and solar applications and the transportation

area.

As we proceed today to consider the budget proposal for the Department of Energy's conservation research and development efforts, I must say that I regard the matter with the utmost of concern.

Two years ago President Carter proposed the National Energy Act, the cornerstone of which was the conservation of energy. Three years before that, the Nation was crawling out from under the OPEC oil embargo of 1973-74. The previous administration and the present one both emphasized the need to conserve energy, the need to decrease our reliance on imports-and the outward flow of petrodollars-and to increase not only our own production, but also our productivity in utilizing what we have.

The National Energy Act is now law. OPEC and domestic prices have increased. We have declared the moral equivalent of war, but sad to say, we have not yet won that war; indeed we have not addressed it with the kind of urgency those words imply.

During the past year, even as the Congress debated and enacted the National Energy Act, our imports of oil have increased, and the flow of dollars abroad has not diminished.

This subcommittee is in the process of considering and acting upon a proposed budget of roughly $2 billion of the Energy Department's overall budget. Much of this is targeted for spending on researching new kinds of energy and new methods of production. Only about a third of the nondefense portion of DOE's budget will be spent on energy conservation. There are provisions in the National Energy Act which will help, including the tax credits, but they will not make a sufficient dent in our consumption.

We must do more. The report of the Council on Environmental Quality, released yesterday, along with the studies upon which it was

(1)

based, indicates that the Nation can achieve meaningful conservation results, and do that generally with a much smaller investment than the equivalent gains in fuel production would cost.

I will insert that report in the record at this point because I think it offers a very good guideline. See Appendix 1, §9. It will be something that I hope we can work together on. There is both research and regulatory aspects of it. It sets forth more or less the goals I would like to achieve; and of course I have two hats, as chairman of this subcommittee and as the ranking democrat on the Energy and Power Subcommittee of House Commerce. We share enthusiasm in what is capable of being done in this field.

What is essential, it seems to me, is for the American people to make the connection between conservation and production; in many cases the one can directly supplant the other. Another important lesson, and one which Secretary Schlesinger has recently discussed, is that our energy supply levels need not be tied to our Gross National Product. It is well established that GNP can continue to be healthy and to grow without equal growth in our energy production and consumption levels.

Again to cite the CEQ study, with a minor effort we can hold our increases in energy consumption by the year 2000 to 25 percent above current levels. But if we make a substantial effort, and I am convinced we should, we can hold that increase to 10 percent, even while continuing a steady growth in GNP. The beauty of embarking on such a conservation program is that the return on our initial investments is clearly substantial, and with that payback we limit the impact on inflation as well. Indeed, it is clear that the conservation investment might be as little as 10 to 50 percent of that of investment in new energy supplies.

In national security terms alone, this course is essential. This appeal is heightened further when one considers the potential for having capital available for other, nonenergy programs.

I look forward now to hearing from the Department's witnesses about some of the plans and programs in the research and development areas under way in the coming years, and I have real concern about some of the cuts being made by OMB and some of the other areas. I would like some of the details about it, recognizing you can't counteract policies made, but still I would like to know where and what your assessment is of the programs that have been cut, and I think you will be able to do that.

Mr. Kramer, do you have a statement?

Mr. KRAMER. Yes; I do.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to join with you in welcoming our witnesses from the Department of Energy today. I am sure that their testimony will be informative and useful in helping us review the Department's programs in conservation and solar applications for fiscal year 1980.

I think that it is a very opportune time for us to consider these programs. Based on events in Iran and elsewhere, it is certainly apparent that we cannot afford to rely indefinitely on foreign supplies of oil. Our Nation must take actions now to avoid the disastrous consequences that will result if we continue to be subject to the supply interruptions caused by events in foreign countries that are outside of our control.

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