come into the examination and compete with all even though they may not meet the requirements set for others. Mr. CURLEY. Did they hold a competitive or noncompetitive examination for all the employees of the independent New York cityowned subway when the employees were blanketed into the civil service of the city of New York? Did they not blanket them into the civil service without any examination? Mr. KAPLAN. That is not true. They held a noncompetitive examination for all those positions. They put them into the classified service. That was starting the new subway system. Mr. CURLEY. It went into effect a year ago and the employees were blanketed in? Mr. KAPLAN. That was because the Civil Service Commission had held noncompetitive examinations for 2 years for everybody who came into the independent subway system. We had to take from the private companies most of their good help and we held noncompetitive examinations to start a new subway system. They had a rigid noncompetitive examination. If one passed a noncompetitive examination and served 2 years he was put into a classified status. Mr. MOSER. In line with the question asked by Mrs. Rogers, have you ever observed that the administrative or appointive officer of the Government has to a very appreciable degree influenced the extent of a noncompetitive examination? Mr. KAPLAN. That has happened sometimes. Mr. MOSER. Have you ever seen it? Mr. KAPLAN. That depends upon the Commission. If we will give the support that the Commission ought to have, both moral and financial, the Commission will be able to stand up against that kind of pressure. Mr. CURLEY. I should like to know, in connection with the proposed Ramspeck bill, and when discussing the efficiency of civil-service employees, whether you think it would be fair in a competitive examination to rate an old employee who has been in the service and performing satisfactory work the same as you would rate a young applicant just out of school or college, the older applicant knowing all about the job and the younger applicant knowing nothing about it? The CHAIRMAN. If there are no further questions, we thank you, Mr. Kaplan, for your interesting statement. There are four other witnesses each of whom will take only 2 or 3 minutes, and then we will adjourn for the day. Let us now hear Mr. James B. Burns. STATEMENT OF JAMES B. BURNS Mr. BURNS. I am here as an interested observer. Colonel Stengle has outlined fully the views of the American Federation of Government Employees with relation to H. R. 2700, and if I were to make any remarks about the bill I could only repeat what he has told you. He has told you that our organization is for the passage of this bill as it is. I personally favor its passage. I am happy that this bill embodies a very important feature of our own legislative program; I am happy that the President's recent pronouncements are also in harmony with that portion of our legislative program. I thank you. STATEMENT OF HAROLD E. SMITH The CHAIRMAN. I am happy to present one of my friends and a constituent from Atlanta. Mr. Smith is vice president of the American Federation of Government Employees and he is employed as internal revenue agent in charge at Atlanta. Mr. Smith. Mr. SMITH. I do not know that I can say more than Mr. Burns has said, and I will not take a great deal of your time in doing it. I personally would be very happy indeed if the open competitive examination could be given before these employees are brought into the classified civil service; but if it cannot be done, the next best thing is what we are in favor of. I thank you for hearing me. The CHAIRMAN. We thank you very much, Mr. Smith. STATEMENT OF JAMES A. CAMPBELL, CINCINNATI, OHIO The CHAIRMAN. The next gentleman to be heard is Mr. James A. Campbell, of Cincinnati, Ohio. Mr. CAMPBELL. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, I should like to say just a word about this question of open competitive and noncompetitive tests. Having in mind the figures mentioned a little while ago by the member of the committee, it is difficult for me to see why you should hold competitive tests and in that manner set up an eligible list of 14 persons for each job that is to be filled. Mr. O'NEILL. The gentleman means competitive examination. The CHAIRMAN. The figures Mr. O'Neill used are in connection with competitive examination. Mr. CAMPBELL. Yes. Assuming that all passed the competitive test, would you not have 14 persons available for every job? Mr. O'NEILL. Fourteen persons took each test. The number of eligibles was less. Mr. CAMPBELL. Suppose we have a small agency with less than 10 or 15 employees and we hold an open competitive test to fill those jobs. They have all been appointed without reference to civil-service laws and regulations. Suppose that three-fourths of those people get grades below people from the outside. They have been doing a satisfactory job and yet after these open competitive tests they have to give way to the people on the outside. Mrs. ROGERS. Do you feel that all would qualify if they took a noncompetitive examination? Mr. CAMPBELL. The Civil Service Commission has the same rules for a noncompetitive as for a competitive examination. Mrs. ROGERS. How many now on the rolls would pass a noncompetitive examination, in your opinion? Mr. CAMPBELL. I have no idea. STATEMENT OF G. CARROLL DIAMOND The CHAIRMAN. Next is Mr. G. Carroll Diamond, a vice president of the American Federation of Government Employees. Mr. DIAMOND. As national vice president of the American Federation of Government Employees here in the District of Columbia, I have come in very close contact with various groups and units of our organization here in the District. I find that all of our mem bers-and I want to emphasize that-both those in the civil service and those without civil service, desire this bill, H. R. 2700. Of course those who are without civil service and who desire to be within the civil service do not care so much how they get in. They very much want to get in, but they want to get in the easiest way. Those who make up the great majority, however, those within the civil service, believe that it is only fair to them that all others who come into the classified civil service come in the same manner and under the same rules after taking the same tests they took. I have nothing further to offer. The CHAIRMAN. We thank you very much, Mr. Diamond. I want to make an announcement before we adjourn for the day. All representatives of organizations who wish to be heard will please give their names and addresses to the clerk of the committee. Let us now adjourn, to meet next Tuesday at 10:30 a. m. (Thereupon, at 12:05 p. m., Friday, Feb. 12, 1937, the committee adjourned, to meet at 10:30 a. m., Feb. 16, 1937.) TO EXTEND THE CLASSIFIED CIVIL SERVICE TO POSITIONS IN EMERGENCY AGENCIES AND EXCEPTED POSITIONS IN OLDER BRANCHES OF THE GOVERNMENT TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 16, 1937 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, Washington, D. C. The committee this day met at 10:30 a. m., Hon. Robert Ramspeck (chairman) presiding, for further consideration of H. R. 2700, which is a bill extending the classified executive civil service of the United States. STATEMENT OF MRS. HARRIS T. BALDWIN, FIRST VICE PRESIDENT OF THE NATIONAL LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS The CHAIRMAN. The committee will please come to order. The first witness this morning is Mrs. Harris T. Baldwin, first vice president of the National League of Women Voters, 726 Jackson Place, Washington, D. C. Please proceed, Mrs. Baldwin. Mrs. BALDWIN. Mr. Ramspeck and members of the committee, the National League of Women Voters welcomes this opportunity to come before your committee this morning, because since its organization in 1920 the problem of better personnel in government has been one of great concern to us. In advocating the extension and improvement of the merit system in the Federal Government, the league has always taken the stand that all employees, except those holding policy-making positions, should be chosen solely on the basis of merit, and should be part of the classified civil service. The progress toward this end in recent months has been most encouraging, and we express our hope that the present Congress will go much further in enacting legislation to enable the Government of the United States to secure the services of its best qualified citizens. We consider the bill before you (H. R. 2700) an important step in that direction. It will, if enacted into law, make possible the accomplishment of the most necessary immediate step toward the end for which we are working--the extension of the merit system throughout the whole Federal Government. We are pleased and very much encouraged to know that this committee has recognized so early in this session of the Congress the need for extension of the merit system and has translated that |