units could have been constructed for $2,700 or $2,800 each, but under the administration of this man they cost the Government nearly $10,000 each. The price is beyond anything that anybody can pay, and the houses are located where anybody who needs a house could not live. It has been necessary to slash the prices down.

We feel very strongly that patronage has emasculated and sabotaged the administration of our social legislative plan in California so far as the Federal Government is concerned. We are intensely interested in seeing that the positions be placed upon a merit basis. We think that if the Government is to expend $3,000,000 for selfhelp cooperatives that somebody who knows something about them should at least help to construct them; and we do not want an ancient spinster to run the transient farms; we do not want somebody connected with subsistence homesteads in a managerial capacity who does not know something about them. We are very, very deeply interested in the question of getting some sort of method for choosing people to do these jobs properly, and in that way avoid the sabotage of Federal social legislation.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you favor competitive or noncompetitive examinations?

Mrs. O'HARA. I have been listening to the discussion of this matter and, while I believe that experience should always be considered, in connection with this type of thing I think I would favor competitive examinations. I am sure that in the departments here some method, of giving credit to those on the jobs could be worked out, but I am also absolutely convinced that a thousand inefficient office workers cannot do socially the injury one of these I have mentioned can do. Those things to which I have directed your special attention seem to me more important than what we are going to do with the emergency clerks in these temporary agencies.

Mrs. ROGERS. As I understand, you favor open competitive examinations?

Mrs. O'HARA. Yes; on jobs such as the committee has in mind. I would favor open competitive examinations for these particular jobs requiring skill.

Mr. TEIGAN. But you would allow a great deal of credit for experience, would you not?

Mrs. O'HARA. Yes; I have had considerable to do with civil-service examinations, and my criticism of all of them is that they are too academic. It seems to me they fail in the thing they should do. The academic end of a civil-service examination does not seem to be so important. I would stress the importance of the type of person and what qualities he posseses for the discharge of the duties of the position he seeks.

Mr. MAAS. You think more stress should be placed upon the personality part of a civil-service examination?

Mrs. O'HARA. Yes; and whether or not a person has had experience in the work actually to be performed.

Mr. MAAS. I am an ardent advocate of the competitive system, but I feel that we should find a proper solution for these experienced employees now in the Government service. From now on all new appointments should be on an open competitive basis, in my view.

Mrs. O'HARA. I have handled many stenographers and girls working in other sorts of office procedure. Somebody mentioned a girl who could write independently the letters in her office, and I think she is infinitely superior and will be more valuable than the one who can take, say, 200 words a minute and put every comma in its place. She has something in her head that the other girl does not have.

Mr. SOUTH. You condemned this ancient spinster because of a lack of experience rather than because of her age.

Mrs. O'HARA. Yes; she is decrepit and has not had any experience handling hoboes.

Mr. MOSER. I believe your name is Kate Richards O'Hara?
Mrs. O'HARA. Yes.

Mr. MOSER. Have you not been identified with movements that have been critical of the policy of the Government over a span of years?

Mrs. O'HARA. I have been critical of certain policies over a number of years.

Mr. MOSER. Have you ever known another person to bear your name?

Mrs. O'HARA. I have not. I never heard of such a person.

Mr. MOSER. Were you a pacifist during the World War?

Mrs. O'HARA. Yes; and I am yet.

Mr. MOSER. Were you investigated by the Department of Justice? Mrs. O'HARA. Yes.

Mr. MOSER. Were you investigated for saying that American mothers were nothing but brood sows?

Mrs. O'HARA. I did not say that.

Mr. MOSER. But you are the same person who was investigated? Mrs. O'HARA. Yes; our statements at that time were seriously garbled, and the statement I made was altogether different.

The CHAIRMAN. If there are no further questions, we thank you very much for your statement, Mrs. O'Hara. Let the record show that Mrs. O'Hara was heard by the committee at the request of Congressman Amilie of Wisconsin.

STATEMENT OF MARGARET HOPKINS WORRELL, PRESIDENT OF THE LEAGUE OF THE AMERICAN CIVIL SERVICE

The CHAIRMAN. The next witness to be heard this morning is Mrs. Margaret Hopkins Worrell, president of the League of the American Civil Service.

Mrs. WORREI L. In considering H. R. 2700 it is my opinion that the phrase in section 1, line 8, "or may hereafter" should be struck out for the reason that in the creation of new commissions or corporations section 1 as written would automatically place employees under the civil service without resort to the civil service examination either competitive or noncompetitive, thus entirely abolishing the merit system.

Section 2 is believed to be entirely too broad and it is suggested that in line 2, after the word "corporation" that the word "heretofore" be inserted, and that in line 6, after the word "Congress" there be added, "Provided such positions are of a permanent tenure of 2 years or more."

In section 3, line 1, strike out the word "permanent" and in line 11 strike out the phrase "only upon receiving a new appointment." During my 30 years' experience in Government service I have observed the demoralizing effect of blanketing in employees. Employees who have been required to pass a competitive examination in order to secure permanent positions in Government service and who have had years of experience with very low salaries bitterly resent the employment of inexperienced, emergency employees at much larger salaries than they have ever been able to obtain, and to add to the injury by blanketing them in without a competitive examination destroys the morale.

I believe it has been stated that this bill will place about 300,000 employees under civil service, about 75 percent of whom the Civil Service Commissioners think could not pass a competitive civilservice examination. If all these are to be blanketed in, why not include the legislative employees and, in fact, every employee of the Government, wherever found? Examination by the Civil Service Commission should be competitive within the office or the commission of employees, but not competitive with regard to the public, then those who fail to pass would leave vacancies that could be filled under the regular civil-service competitive examination.

In view of the fact that the Congress is not informed regarding many new important matters about which it is called upon from time to time to legislate, may I suggest that the following questionnaire be submitted to all employees in Government service and that each department, bureau, commission, corporation, or otherwise be required to tabulate the information requested thereunder and submit the same to the Congress within 60 days or less:

Name
Where

11

QUESTIONNAIRE

Age

Is your wife or husband employed
At what salary

How many of your relatives are in Government service
Gives names, relationship, and what office employed

Married or single

From what State were you

What is your native State
appointed
Are you a citizen of the United States
Were you appointed through examination, Executive order, or influence

Describe nature of the work you are doing and the title by which it is known

How many in same unit, section, or division doing same kind of work On the table below show your status every year-i. e., salary-promoted demoted-transferred-resigned - dropped - reinstated

ment:

temporary employ

Read carefully and answer all questions without fear. Anything you do not know must be furnished you from the records of your office or the Civil Service Commission. Attach extra slip if necessary.

When you have filled out the above questionnaire take this paper to the notary public in your department or elsewhere for attestation.

(Signed)

Subscribed and sworn to before me, a notary public in and for the District of Columbia, this

My commission expires

day of

1937.

Notary Public.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the purpose of the questionnaire?
Mrs. WORRELL. To learn the things you ought to know.

Mr. MAHON. I understood you to say that it was said by the Civil Service Commission that 75 percent of these emergency employees who might take a competitive examination could not pass it. I understand that your statement is not correct.

Mr. WORRELL. I read that in the newspaper. I read that a commissioner had stated here that about 75 percent of these emergency employees could not pass a competitive examination, could not make only 70 percent.

The CHAIRMAN. That is a mistake. They estimated that 75 percent would not be able to receive appointments under competitive conditions because the only ones who would receive appointments would be those making 90 percent or more.

Mrs. WORRELL. I am glad to be corrected, because I did not understand it that way.

Mr. MAAS. What would be the effect of the proposed amendment that you offer?

Mrs. WORRELL. If you should strike out the words "or may hereafter" in line 8, page 1, that would prohibit anybody hereafter being exempted by statute.

Mr. MAAS. That of itself would not prohibit the Congress passing laws exempting specific agencies.

Mrs. WORRELL. That is true. Congress could do that. Congress could repeal the whole act.

The CHAIRMAN. Its effect would be that the President would not in the future have authority to bring in an agency that Congress exempted?

Mrs. WORRELL. That is right.

The CHAIRMAN. What about the second amendment you suggested? Mrs. WORRELL. After the word "corporation" in line 2, page 2, I would insert the word "heretofore." In line 6, after the word "Congress", I would insert the words, "Provided such positions are of a permanent tenure of 2 years or more.

The CHAIRMAN. That would mean that if we should create a corporation hereafter, this bill could not apply to it?

Mrs. WORRELL. That is what I meant to cover.

In section 3, line 1, I would strike out the word "permanent" and in line 11, page 2, I would strike out the phrase "only upon receiving a new appointment." If one had a permanent position, I do not see why he should have to go into an examination in order to receive a classified status.

The CHAIRMAN. If there are no further questions, we thank you very much for your statement, Mrs. Worrell.

We have concluded our hearings on H. R. 2700, and I want to thank the members of the committee for their attendance. The committee will stand adjourned, to meet at the call of the chairman. (Thereupon at 12:20 p. m., Tuesday, Feb. 23, 1937, the committee adjourned, to meet at the call of the chairman.)