The CHAIRMAN. The States of Virginia and Maryland and the District of Columbia, and perhaps one or two others, have filled their quotas, and in the case of the District of Columbia and Maryland and Virginia they are far over their quotas, I believe.

Mr. VIPOND. They have practically always been over their quotas. Within the past 3 years the apportionment has been equalized more, because many separations have occurred from the staffs of employees chargeable to Maryland, Virginia, and the District of Columbia, and those employees have been supplanted by persons from States that are in arrears.

The CHAIRMAN. The Commission has no record which would enable you to tell us whether the emergency agencies have followed the apportionment law, has it?

Mr. VIPOND. We have no information as to that.

The CHAIRMAN. It is entirely possible that they have accentuated that lack of balance by employing those of the District of Columbia who lost their jobs in civil-service agencies, is it not?

Mr. VIPOND. Yes.

Mr. MAHON. Would it be possible to insert in the hearings the status of the different States in regard to apportionment?

Mr. VIPOND. Yes; we can do that.

The CHAIRMAN. Please do so.

TABLE 1.-Condition of apportionment of United States Civil Service Commission, Washington, D. C., at close of business, Saturday, Jan. 30, 1937

NOTE.-Number of employees occupying apportioned positions who are excluded from the apportionment figures under section 2, rule VII, and the Attorney General's opinion of August 25, 1934, 10,814.

Mr. VIPOND. You will understand that these figures relate only to the agencies and positions under civil service and they have no relation to those we are dealing with in this bill.

The CHAIRMAN. I will say frankly that that is one reason I want the competitive examinations. You have no records which would enable us to know whether the emergency agencies have complied with the veteran's preference law?

Mr. VIPOND. We have nothing on that.

Mr. KITCHENS. I take it that since the World War the apportionment law has been disregarded.

Mr. VIPOND. No; it has not been disregarded by the Civil Service Commission.

Mr. KITCHENS. In my own State of Arkansas we are supposed to have 504 appointments to the departmental service, as I remember. Have you statistics that would enable me to learn just how many employees there are in the departments at Washington from the State of Arkansas?

Mr. VIPOND. That information will be in the table we will furnish for the record.

The CHAIRMAN. I might say that the apportionment law does not apply to dismissals or transfers, and that is one reason why it does not work like Congress intended it should.

Mr. KITCHENS. Am I correct in thinking that the apportionment is based upon a pro-rata distribution of the money, the combined salaries, rather than upon the population? For example, a man in my State might obtain a civil-service position paying $5,000 a year, and a man from my colleague's State might obtain a position paying $2,000 a year. What I am getting at is, would my man drawing $5,000 a year be the same as my colleague's man under this apportionment act or would you consider the money that each received?

Mr. VIPOND. No. The apportionment is reckoned on the basis of the number of appointments; therefore the appointment of a messenger boy counts as one appointment for a State and a $5,000 engineer when appointed counts as one charge against his State. In other words, the apportionment is not based upon the rate of pay or the compensation received by the group of employees charged to any State.

Mr. KITCHENS. I have a case where a good citizen of Connecticut was appointed to a $6,000 job in Washington and was charged to my poor State; and it will be my effort to avoid that in the future. Mr. GRIFFITH. What is responsible for a lack of a proper distribution of the appointments among the States according to population? Mr. VIPOND. We hold examinations throughout the country, and frequently we rehold examinations that are open only to residents of the States that are in arrears; but when the list of eligibles is exhausted from the States in arrears, we have to make certifications from the States that have an excess quota.

The CHAIRMAN. Under the noncompetitive system would there be any character investigation made?

Mr. VIPOND. Yes; for certain types of work. For instance, lawenforcement positions, just as in the competitive examination.

The CHAIRMAN. In the competitive examinations do you make any character investigations?

Mr. VIPOND. Yes; for the law-enforcement jobs, and in a sense we make an investigation in connection with the applicants for techni

cal positions. We make inquiries as to claims of experience and training in order to be sure that the applicants have the experience and training they claim.

The CHAIRMAN. Can you furnish the committee a list of the agencies that might be affected by this bill, giving the number of employees each agency has, as well as a list of the number of excepted positions in other agencies?

Mr. VIPOND. We can do that as of last June 30.

Mr. TEIGAN. Would it be possible to get similar or the same information concerning agencies that are not now under civil service? The CHAIRMAN. That is what I asked for.

TABLE 2.-Number of classified and unclassified positions in the departments and independent establishments of the Executive branch of the Federal service on June 30, 1936

[The unclassified positions include not only the positions in the emergency agencies but also positions in the regular establishments of the Government which are compensated from emergency funds allocated thereto under the relief or works program]

TABLE 2.-Number of classified and unclassified positions in the departments and independent establishments of the Executive branch of the Federal service on June 30, 1936-Continued.

Mr. KITCHENS. Referring to the question of competitive and noncompetitive examinations, where an examination is competitive one has to take a Nation-wide examination, does he not?

Mr. VIPOND. Yes; unless the examination be local to a State or community. If local, one competes locally.

Mr. KITCHENS. Could you give us any idea of the expense of a Nation-wide examination?

Mr. VIPOND. The assembled examination costs about $2 per competitor, and if we have, say, 200,000 applicants in an examination it would cost about $400,000. The unit cost decreases as we have a greater number of competitors and it increases as the number of competitors is reduced. For technical examinations in the professional fields the cost is nearer $3 per competitor. For the very simple clerical examinations the cost in connection with a large examination is less than $2 per competitor.

Mr. MAHON. Mr. Vipond, I understand that if we have a competitive examination to fill all these places in these emergency agencies and the independent offices that are not under civil service, probably 300,000 or 400,000 persons may be involved.

Mr. VIPOND. Yes; as incumbents of positions.

Mr. MAHON. If the Commission had to hold competitive examinations to fill those positions, how would it be possible for the Commission to do that with any degree of expedition?

Mr. VIPOND. I do not believe we could. We would be asking for a large building of our own and $1,000,000 or $2,000,000 for that purpose. It could not be done with expedition.

Mr. MAHON. Going into that more fully, how long would it take; could you do it during this administration?

Mr. VIPOND. That is largely a matter of appropriations of money. It would be controlled by that consideration. We would need qualified examiners for the work, and if the tests were made competitive, it would mean a large number of persons to be examined at one time or during a short period of time. We might experience difficulty in recruiting a staff of examiners, because we could not offer permanent employment to all of them just because of a peak in our work.

The CHAIRMAN. That is really the reason the Commission prefers a noncompetitive examination to meet the practical situation, is it not, Mr. Vipond-because of the immensity of the task?

Mr. VIPOND. That is a major reason.

The CHAIRMAN. And the cost is a serious consideration?
Mr. VIPOND. Yes.

Mr. HALLECK. If the merit system in Government employment is worth anything it ought to be worth the time and expense of applying it?

Mr. VIPOND. A man who has been working several years on a job naturally acquires a knowledge of and information about it. He knows the next man to talk to above or below him, and that knowledge cannot be tested by examinations. The merit system has grown in that way; it started that way. In 1883 Congress covered 13,000 or 14,000 positions into the classified service and said that whenever a post office or customs office had as many as 50 employees that office automatically entered the classified service and the incumbents came in without examination. Gradually it cures itself. When a man goes out his place is filled competitively and there is no disruption in the work of the office.

Mr. HALLECK. I understand that. I was not here when that was done. Also, I have understood that during the World War the Civil Service Commission did a pretty good job of filling emergency places in the Government service by civil-service examinations.

Mr. VIPOND. Yes, sir; that is true.

Mr. HALLECK. As I understand, the emergency has now passed and we are trying to effect efficiency in the Government service.

Mr. VIPOND. During the World War the condition was quite different. Then the Government had to go out to seek the workers. This meant that the examinations were in a large measure noncompetitive. Just as soon as one passed an examination he was appointed, even though he had a rating of only 70. We held stenographer and typewriter examinations during that period every working day, because they needed very many persons thus qualified. The examinations at that time were opened to American citizens and to citizens of the allied countries. We had to have very many workers. Now we have an examination for railway postal clerks and the examination is open for only 8 days and yet we get 201,000 applications to fill 2,500 or 3,000 positions. At the present time we have to rate the examination papers very carefully because they are competitive examinations. During the World War the examinations were virtually noncompetitive. It is true that the applicant had to show eligibility, yet everybody who passed with even the lowest mark, 70 percent, was appointed. During that time we did not have to make a close distinction owing to the fact that there was no real competition.

Mr. HALLECK. Still I cannot follow your reasoning, because at this time we have many applicants and we should give the positions to those who display the best ability competitively.

Mr. VIPOND. In the setting up of new agencies the civil-service laws and regulations can be applied, because temporary appointments may be made pending examinations.

Mr. HALLECK. How long have you believed that?

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