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realistic, and what kind of competition would be truly beneficial to the system and to the student. This is one example of what might be done.

I also want to indicate my present dissatisfaction from the degree of attention that we are able to give to the questions of special education and handicapped children in this portion of limited hearings. I would hope that by reason of the readiness now in the presentation of the report of the task force of the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare on the problems of handicapped children, that we could assign some time in the committee to gain the day or week or more to the single consideration of how the progress and how to address ourselves to legislation along the lines suggested in this new report.

So my intent is to convey the opinion that there is far more here that needs to be done than we can accomplish in these hearings.

I do want to commend the panel before us for their very positive contribution, in terms of a constructive statement on the working of ESEA as we now see it in operation.

I feel that the very limitation in terms of comprehensiveness of the statement itself leaves something to be desired. There is much more that you can tell us, that you have not told us. There is much more that I feel we can learn from you that we have not learned. There is much more that needs to be discussed, in terms of how the bill is working, and how it can work better, and how it is not working, and I therefore feel that once we get this bill on its legislative way, we should begin again.

We should resume detailed hearings into the facets of interest and the facets of challenge that have presented themselves to us by reason of these highly cursory and surfactant-type hearings. I think that we are really just skimming the surface, because that is all there is time to do at this time, but I hope that the NCWC and kindred groups would cooperate with those of us who want to go more deeply into the challenges and into the problems and into the successes and into the opportunities that we know are there by reason of our experience in this bill.

I know I will have that assurance from this particular group. The committee will stand in recess until 9:30 a.m. tomorrow. (Whereupon, at 4:30 p.m., a recess was taken until tomorrow, Thursday, March 16, 1967, at 9:30 a.m.)

ELEMENTARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION

AMENDMENTS OF 1967

THURSDAY, MARCH 16, 1967

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND LABOR,

Washington, D.C.

The committee met at 9:30 a.m., pursuant to recess, in room 2175, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Carl D. Perkins (chairman of the committee) presiding.

Present: Representatives Perkins, Green, Ford, Meeds, Ayres, Quie, Goodell, Bell, Gurney, Erlenborn, Scherle, Dellenback, Gardner, and Steiger.

Staff members present: Robert E. McCord, senior specialist; H. D. Reed, Jr., general counsel; William D. Gaul, associate general counsel; Benjamin F. Reeves, editor; and Louise M. Dargens, research assistant.

Chairman PERKINS. The committee will come to order. A quorum is present. Several witnesses have been delayed this morning getting in here.

Dr. Buchanan is our first witness.

STATEMENT OF PAUL BUCHANAN, SUPERINTENDENT OF

SCHOOLS, JACKSON COUNTY, N.C.

Mr. BUCHANAN. I do not have a prepared statement, Mr. Chairman. Chairman PERKINS. We are delighted to welcome you here, Mr.

Buchanan.

Mr. BUCHANAN. Certainly I appreciate the opportunity to talk with you about the NTC program and we at the local level are pleased with you. The committee members will spend time studying these proposals that are made for Federal aid and gathering information that is vital in making decisions that are in the best interest of this country and to the educational programs.

Chairman PERKINS. Tell us how the Elementary and Secondary Education Act, particularly title I, and particularly the Teacher Corps if you have taken advantage of it, and what has been your experience with these programs.

Mr. BUCHANAN. We have taken advantage of both title I and the Teacher Corps and we have found that they have assisted our programs very greatly.

When we were given the opportunity of incorporating the National Teacher Corps into our program we were skeptical at first and we proceeded with caution.

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Frankly we questioned the wisdom of becoming involved. We also recognized that we had an obligation to do all we could to meet the needs of our pupils.

Chairman PERKINS. Right at that point, from the experience that you have gained since the Teacher Corps was inaugurated in your school system, have you discovered that your skepticism was unfounded at the outset?

Mr. BUCHANAN. Yes, sir; we have found that. We have found that this program has done something for a group of children that perhaps we could not have done in any other way and it has been done in a very satisfactory way.

Chairman PERKINS. I think that is a very significant statement.

You are recommending the broadening of the Teacher Corps, that the Congress enact the Teacher Corps amendment as being proposed at the present time; is that right?

Mr. BUCHANAN. Yes, sir; we are very definitely recommending it. Chairman PERKINS. In the disadvantaged area of your city how many teachers and interns have you recruited into the corps?

Mr. BUCHANAN. We have a small rural school unit. We only have 3,600 students in our school unit. We have recruited three teachers and three interns and a master teacher.

Chairman PERKINS. Has there been any friction between your regular teacher and the teacher that you recruited under the Teacher Corps?

Mr. BUCHANAN. No, sir; there has not been. Before I had any idea that I would be a part of this hearing, of course, we asked our teachers to evaluate the program and they were very definite in their statements that there has been no friction, that the relationship has been very good. I believe the word they used to describe it was "beautiful." Chairman PERKINS. In the administration of title I in your school system have you had any difficulty with that? Has that proven to be a great advantage in your school system? Have you been able to put on special programs? Are you in a position to evaluate some good results from that program?

Mr. BUCHANAN. Yes, sir; we are very pleased with title I because it has enabled us to put on special programs. Our most significant project was in the area of language arts. It has enabled us to do the things that we were not able to do and could not have done had it not been for title I in this area.

Chairman PERKINS. Do you care to make any further comment about the Elementary and Secondary Education Act at this point?

Mr. BUCHANAN. Nothing, Mr. Chairman, except to say it is very fine. We are taking advantage of title I, title II, and title III of the ESEA and they have not only supplemented our program but they have actually added new programs that we could not have had without it.

Chairman PERKINS. Have you been able to work with the guidelines issued by the Department in your area in North Carolina?

Mr. BUCHANAN. We have had no trouble with the guidelines but I think we need to give your State department of instruction some of the credit for the small amount of trouble we have had at the local level. They have been very helpful in helping us to work out the problems.

Chairman PERKINS. You are telling the committee that you have only had a small amount of trouble in the great State of North Carolina in the administration of the Elementary and Secondary Education Act and considering the guidelines issues from Washington and that your State department of education has worked out any small differences that existed between it as a result of the guidelines being issued!

Mr. BUCHANAN. That is true.

Chairman PERKINS. Are practically all of the districts in North Carolina now taking advantage of ESEA; or do you know?

Mr. BUCHANAN. I think that all of them do. I do not know for

sure.

Chairman PERKINS. Mr. Ayres?

Mr. AYRES. No questions.

Chairman PERKINS. Mr. Brademas.

Mr. BRADEMAS. I have no questions other than to express our appreciation to the witness.

Chairman PERKINS. I think you have made an outstanding witness, especially coming from a rural community in North Carolina.

Mr. BRADEMAS. Isn't it true that Mrs. Johnson was in your State yesterday?

Mr. BUCHANAN. Yes, sir; she visited our NTC project. I would just like to add this statement, if I may, Mr. Perkins.

Chairman PERKINS. Yes, sir; go ahead.

Mr. BUCHANAN. We feel that if those who are vitally interested would visit our area and see our project that they would be convinced that NTC does do the thing that it proposes to do, that it does add additional opportunity for bringing opportunity to educationally disadvantaged children, and that also it does this by encouraging the colleges to give special training that is effective training to these interns and those who work with the disadvantaged.

Chairman PERKINS. Thank you very much for that statement. Mr. Ford, any questions?

Mr. FORD. No questions, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman PERKINS. Thank you very much for your appearance here this morning Professor Buchanan. We really appreciate your coming.

Without objection I would like to insert into the record a telegram I received from Theodore Sizer, of Harvard University.

Hon. CARL PERKINS,

Chairman, House Committee on Education and Labor,
U.S. House of Representatives, Washington, D.C.:

CAMBRIDGE, MASS.

Re hearings on National Teacher Corps. My apologies for failing to appear at yesterday's hearings. In brief compass my view is as follows:

We need to provide new educational opportunities for children from low-income families is clear. The role of the teacher in realizing this high purpose is equally clear. We need a new generation of leaders in this special field if we are to assure this very substantial population of youngsters of the best in education. The Teacher Corps offers this prospect. Indeed, so crucial is this program that it is difficult for me to see how other efforts now underway at improving the educational opportunities for the poor can succeed unless we recruit and train substantial numbers of young people-both dedicated and competent-to teach them.

Accordingly, I wish to endorse the Teacher Corps program and to urge that substantial funds be appropriated to see it through this critical phase. I am not only committed to the idea but hope that the program can be cast in such a

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