safety of air transportation, over to the Interstate Commerce Commission, taking with it all records and all thoroughly experienced personnel having to do with air transportation.

In other words, lift air transportation right out of its present location. Take everything with it. Don't destroy what has been done; just carry on, but under a new system of procedure under the Interstate Commerce Commission. This would take it out of politics and other harmful influences and give it the benefit of the Interstate Commerce Commission's long and extensive experience in the field of transportation.

It has been. argued that there is a great difference between air transportation and any other form of transportation. While this is in a measure true, transportation is transportation, no matter in what form we find it, and the majority of its problems are similar, especially those that have to do with regulating safety. In other words, it is a matter of properly systematized and strictly enforced safety regulation.

In addition, there should be created within the proposed air-transport section of the Interstate Commerce Commission a Bureau of Air Safety. In other words, I am not saying that it should be transferred to the Interstate Commerce Commission, but we should go further. We should create a Bureau of Air Safety within this proposed Air Transportation Section of the Interstate Commerce Commission. This proposed Bureau of Air Safety should concern itself with nothing but inspection and the very important problems of properly safeguarding safety in the air. In other words, the function of the Bureau of Air Safety would have to do entirely with answering the one question, "Is it safe?" And if it is not safe, it is not sound.

In other words, in air transportation, no matter what the advancements or developments are, if they are not safe they are unsound.

Representatives of the Air Line Pilots Association appeared before the President's Federal Aviation Commission and made the same recommendation. We now again repeat this recommendation before your committee, and in view of the urgent seriousness of the situation, we urge that laws be enacted as soon as possible for this transfer.

It might be added at this point that the chairman of the Federal Aviation Commission, Clark Howell, also recommended that all transportation be coordinated under the Interstate Commerce Commission, but that there be separate sections for each branch, including one for air transportation. I would like also to make myself clear on this point. I think we should not be included with any other form of transportation in the Interstate Commerce Commission, but there should be a separate division for air transportation within the Interstate Commerce Commission. Clark Howell made that recommendation when he was chairman of the Federal Aviation Commission.

The President of the United States had this to say, after giving careful study to the final report of the Federal Aviation Commission:

"The Commission further recommends the creation of a temporary Air Commerce Commission. In this recommendation I am unable to concur. I believe that we should avoid the multiplication of separate regulatory agencies in the field of transportation. Therefore, in the interim before a permanent consolidated agency is created or designated over transportation as a whole, a division of the Interstate Commerce Commission can well serve the needs of air transportation."

The Air Line Pilots concur in the President's recommendation.

The pilots feel this bill introduced by Mr. Crosser is the first real constructive measure, the first real thing that has been done since that time, and I think in view of the fact we have had so many terrible accidents as I have explained to you, I think that this bill should be given prompt consideration.

We have had enough air-safety investigations. I think I noticed yesterday where a resolution was introduced in the House to have another investigation of air-line accidents. It is a very fine resolution and Congressman Celler, who drew it up, evidently gave it a lot of study and got his facts straight, but we have had our safety investigations both in the House and Senate and everything is in the record and what we need now is action by creating a sharp, clean-cut, enforceable law such as the Crosser bill, and I think we

will all be surprised at the results. The industry has grown up and needs grown-up laws.

I also would like to tell the committee that all of the air-line pilots, a thousand strong, are unanimously in back of the Crosser proposal. The line pilots should know about air safety, because they have had a vast amount of experience. The average time of first pilots runs in the neighborhood of 7,000 to 8,000 hours in the air and they and the copilots are all unanimously behind this legislation. This matter came up at our last convention in Chicago, which took place last fall, and a resolution was passed there to support the creation of a real safety law and the same sort of resolution was passed 2 years before in convention. So you see it is not a new thing with the pilots. We have been advocating this kind of legislation for upward of 3 years.

I would also like to say before closing that the safety laws governing railroad were safety sponsored by the railroad brotherhoods and that they were primarily responsible for those laws. The pilots are out here flying. It is a dangerous occupation. They are being killed averagely one every 28 days. Recently even more often. And it is a very grave problem to us. We feel that this law should be enacted.

Before closing I would like to state that a great many of our country's best pilots have given their lives to the development of a great industry. Here is the list. Sixty-seven in approximately 5 years. I would like to put this list in the record.

The CHAIRMAN. Very well. We will be glad to have you insert it. (The list referred to is as follows:)

"To fly West, my friend, is a flight we all must take for a final check." In Constant Memoriam

Anderson, Lloyd (U. A. L.)
Andert, Paul A. (U. A. L.)
Barron, John M., Jr. (A. A.)
Bigelow, Ed. (U. A. L.)
Blom, Edwin W. (U. A. L.)
Bolton, Harvey F. (T. W. A.)
Bontrager, C. M. (R. A. L.)
Borchers, Adrian (P. A. A.)
Bowen, J. E. (T. W. A.)
Bowen, Lewis L. (B. A.)
Briggs, Francis W. (A. A.)
Broughton, D. E. (U. A. L.)
Bucher, Charles L. (P. A. A.)
Cohn, Hanley G. (W. A. S.)
Cox, Floyd (Ludington)
Davis, Alfred W. (U. A. L.)
Davis, Douglas (E. A. L.)

De Cesaro, Joseph G. (U. A. L.)
Dixon, Andrew, Jr. (D. A. L.)
Fields, Glenn T. (A. A.)
Fuller, Ray E. (A. A.)
George, Hal (T. W. A.)
Grover, R. Boyd (U. A. L.)
Haid, Arthur A. (N. W.)
Hallgren, W. A. (A. A.)

ACTIVE

ACCIDENTAL

Hill, George W. (A. A.)
Holbrook, Clyde M. (A. A.)
Jamieson, W. L. (E. A. L.)
Kelsey, Harold J. (A. A.)
Kincanon, Ted N. (A. A.)
Komdat, Albert C. (E. A. L.)
Lewis, Harry C. (T. W. A.)
Livermore, Joe (N. W.)
Lucas, Al (W. A. S.)
Lucas, Verne (Ludington)
Lynn, John B. (C. & S. A. L.)
McMickle, Harold (P. A. A.)
Malick, Forrest E. (U. A. L.)
Marshall, Gerald V. (A. A.)
Montee, Ralph (T. W. A.)

Montijo, John G. (V. A. T.)

Morgan, Howard R. (T. W. A.)

Mossman, Russell C. (C. & S. A. L.)

Neff, Harold (U. A. L.)

Noe, Earl J. (T. W. A.)

Odell, M. T. (A. A.)

Owens, Clifford P. (W. A. E.)

Paschal, A. (P. A. A.)

Potter, Norman W. (U. A. L.)

Radoll, R. W. (U. A. L.)

Mr. BEHNCKE. It is not so much a matter of dollars and cents with the pilot. It is a matter of safety, safeguarding their lives and the lives of those entrusted to them for safe passage, the safety of their passengers.

Mr. BOREN. How long has your association been in existence? Mr. BEHNCKE. Approximately 51⁄2 years. Sixty-seven have been killed in a little over 5 years.

We have spent a great deal of time testifying before investigating committees and we have repeatedly pointed out the urgent need for a clean-cut enforceable air-safety law. Our air network has become so extensive that proper safety legislation is necessary. Safety regulations must be enforced. We have got to have enforcement. Air safety laws and regulations have got to be written in such a way as to definitely place air-safety responsibilities, and the line pilots feel that the Interstate Commerce Commission, with its 50 years of experience in regulating safety in transportation, is best fitted to take over this problem.

Now, we do not say that the air transportation should be just placed in the Interstate Commerce Commission is a whole, but instead the Crosser bill creates a separate air transportation bureau within the Interstate Commerce Commission and we feel that this air transportation bureau will be air-minded and will take hold of this situation and go on with it and air safety will be greatly increased.

Now that we have in a general way explained the Crosser bill, I would like to analyze one more very important feature if I may. We are approaching adjournment time. It will take me about 5 minutes more and I will be through.

This chart is an outline as to how we believe this bill will operate.

Now that you all have a copy of this organization chart before you, I would like to point out the location of the Air Safety Board on this chart, and how it will function in relation to the balance of the functions of the Air Transportation Division of the Interstate Commerce Commission. Before going on with this explanation, I would like to point out that the pilots are not only recommending that air safety be transferred from the present Bureau of Air Commerce over to a to-be-created Air Transportation Bureau within the Interstate Commerce Commission; our recommendations even go a step further. We feel that within the Air Transportation Bureau of the Interstate Commerce Commission there should be created this five-man Safety Board that is shown on this organization chart, whose duty it will be

(1) To study safety in interstate and foreign air transportation and services and to collect and disseminate information relative thereto.

(2) To receive complaints and conduct hearings and investigations on all matters pertaining to air safety and accident prevention and to make such recommendations as will promote safety in air transportation.

(3) To make investigations of, and record the causes of, accidents on scheduled air-line carriers engaged in civil air transportation; and when it deems it in the public interest, to make reports of such investigations, stating the cause or causes of accidents, together with such recommendations as it deems proper. Such reports may be made public in such manner as the Commission deems proper.

In other words, this five-member Air Safety Board will be concerned with nothing but safety. Safety will be their entire work. They will be concerned with nothing else but guaranteeing safety to the American air-traveling public. They will report directly to the Director of the Air Transport Bureau of the Interstate Commerce Commission.

The pilots feel that this will prove a very effective arrangement, because it provides that safety be kept separate from regulation_and all other functions under the proposed Interstate Commerce Commission Bureau of Air Transportation. For example, under this arrangement the regulatory agency of the Government would not be going out, as they are at the present time when an accident occurs, and investigating the efficiency of their own activities. Instead, all matters of safety and accident investigations will be handled by this five-man Safety Board, and they will make recommendations directly to the head of the Bureau of Air Transportation, who will, in turn, make proper recommendations to the proper departments. In other words, under this arrangement things will be handled very quickly and effectively, because the Air Safety Board, will be a clearing house for all matters having to do with air safety and accident prevention. You might ask who would make up this five member Air Safety Board within the Air Transport Bureau of the Interstate Commerce Commission. Well, just by way of illustration, it could be made up of, say, two pilots having in the neighborhood of 15,000 hours apiece; and an aeronautical engineer, a radio engineer, and perhaps a mechanical engineer, all thoroughly qualified and highly experienced. These people would comprise the Air Safety Board. This would be comparable, more or less, to the Bureau of Safety in the Interstate Commerce Commission having to do with railroad safety. And in addition to making studies of accidents and study air safety, they would make studies of how to prevent accidents.