the wash racks (7,200 feet) looped into the existing system, in order to obtain adequate water supply at effective pressure for vehicle and truck washing; and the rehabilitation of existing wash racks.

Utilization of heavy tanks in training certain units of the armored division makes it mandatory that four battalion motor parks comprising 220,000 square yards be improved to serve the above units. Existing hard-standing areas were not designated to withstand the load and maneuvering of such tanks. such a load, the surface would immediately disintegrate, and during heavy rains would result in a mucilaginous quagmire.

Under

The existing water supply to the wash racks must be supplemented by an additional main to effect adequate supply and pressure for vehicle washing.

General NOLD. That item is for improvements to the battalion motor park facilities, $500,000.

This project proposes the improvement of four battalion motor park areas. The total are to be improved consists of 220,000 square yards. The improvements will provide for the construction of 12 inches of flexible base with 2 inches asphaltic concrete surface binder and 2 inches asphaltic surface course, shaped to provide surface drainage; auxiliary water main including booster pumps to serve the wash racks (7,200 feet) looped into the existing system, in order to obtain adequate water supply at effective pressure for vehicle and truck washing; and the rehabilitation of existing wash racks.

Utilization of heavy tanks in training certain units of the armored division makes it mandatory that four battalion motor parks comprising 220,000 square yards be improved to serve the above units. Existing hard-standing areas were not designed to withstand the load and maneuvering of such tanks. Under such a load, the surface would immediately disintegrate, and during heavy rains would result in a mucilaginous quagmire.

The existing water supply to the wash racks must be supplemented by an additional main to effect adequate supply and pressure for vehicle washing.

Mr. SHEPPARD. This is a facility of quite some standing. It has been in existence for some considerable period of time, has it not? General NOLD. Yes.

Mr. SHEPPARD. Have you had funds heretofore for the preservation of these projects and the expansion that has been indicated here, or not?

General NOLD. No, sir.

Mr. SHEPPARD. Has disintegration of existing properties there gone into such an extent-for example on your wash racks-that they are nonserviceable?

General NOLD. Practically nonserviceable. They will not carry such a load as is contemplated.

Mr. SHEPPARD. What increased manpower is going into this area? General BARRIGER. Mr. Chairman, the increase in the facilities is necessary largely due to the change in the weight of the tank with which we are equipped now and the tank for which this was built. And, of course, the bringing of that division up to its strength is important. It never has been up to strength.

The motor park was designed for the old tank. As I recall it, the maximum weight was around 30 tons. It is now up around 47 tons. With regard to water pressure, we take these tanks out, and you know they are all churned up with mud and debris and gravel and so on. In order to preserve that tank you have to wash it under pressure

every day. These heavy tanks are going in, and you need heavier hard standing for them, and water pressure to clean them.

ALLOWANCE FOR CONTINGENCIES

Mr. SHEPPARD. Does the 15 percent that you had under discussion with my colleague, Congressman Sikes, from Florida, prevail in this presentation as well?

General NOLD. That is correct, sir.

Mr. SHEPPARD. In establishing the 15-percent item I was interested in the inquiries and comments on that issue. You have that there for a cushion, I presume, to cover the price fluctuations.

General NOLD. In part, and partly because, generally speaking, on these projects we have had no funds to make exploration to find out just what the conditions are under which we must design and build. We may run into unexpected ground or drainage conditions. Each project is analyzed on its own account as to what we actually know of it before we establish the exact percentage.

Mr. SHEPPARD. Then the 15 percent does not have to do literally with the procurement of lumber and various and sundry other materials that go into the project?

General NOLD. NO.

Mr. SHEPPARD. But it is for the purpose of ground coring and making tests relative to the type of construction you have to apply to a certain geographical area?

General NOLD. And for the design accordingly, if we run into unfavorable conditions.

JUSTIFICATION OF PROGRAM

Mr. PLUMLEY. There seems to be something about this item which is more or less familiar.

Am I to understand you have never undertaken heretofore to justify the expenditure or appropriation of some $500,000 as indicated.

General NOLD. This is in the authorization bill, sir, but has not been in a previous appropriation bill.

Mr. PLUMLEY. Your justification as made in particularity heretofore has been made substantially the same as now?

General NOLD. Yes, sir; that is correct. We have added to the justification here based on the present condition. The old justification was not sufficient to bring it into the priority of the budget ceiling limitations.

Mr. PLUMLEY. No change has been made in the expense involved in the source of water supply, or the piping?

General NOLD. Not at that point.

Mr. PLUMLEY. That is all.

Mr. SHEPPARD. Mr. Wigglesworth?

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Why is it essential to have a 12-inch flexible base with 2 inches of asphaltic concrete surface binder and 2 inches of asphaltic surface, for the purpose of washing trucks or tanks or for maneuvering them for training purposes?

General NOLD. That is a matter of design and computation, Mr. Wigglesworth. That is our judgment of what is required.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Suppose that you did not have that. Do you mean to say that you could not wash them or train them? General NOLD. Not satisfactorily; no, sir.

PRESENT FACILITIES

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. What do you have now?

General NOLD. We have modest parking areas that we have endeavored to maintain to the standard required by light loads.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. What are those modest areas, and what are those standards?

General NOLD. We have had a maximum of 30 tons for which to design heretofore.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. I understand that. I am talking about the parking areas.

General NOLD. The same thing applies to them.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. What do you have now? I do not know. You have not told me. I am trying to find out.

General NOLD. I cannot give you the square footage.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. What do you have in terms of this surfacing and this base for which you are asking?

General NOLD. We will have to look that up, sir.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Do you mean to say that you do not know that, when you come in to justify a request like this?

General NOLD. I cannot recite on that, offhand.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. So far as I am concerned I am not going to vote for this item until I know what the picture is. I think the Department should know in advance that the committee would want to be advised in that connection.

General NOLD. We have that data available.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. I am asking for it for the use of the committee and you cannot give it to me. You are justifying a request which is

dependent on that.

General NOLD. Our offhand recollection is that we have six of these parks each with an 8-inch sub-base but with no surfacing. Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. How many tanks do you have there now? General NOLD. In round figures, 900.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Nine hundred tanks now.

you going to have?

How many are

General NOLD. That is the figure we are going to have.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. How many do you have now? That is my question.

General NOLD. I cannot answer that.

Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. How many trucks do you have there now? General NOLD. Those figures will have to be obtained for you. Mr. WIGGLESWORTH. Gentlemen, I do not see any use in your coming up to justify your requests if you cannot give us the fundamental information.

I have no further questions.

Mr. TABER. How many troops do you have at this place?

General NOLD. About 16,000 at the present time.

Mr. TABER. At the present time?

General NoLd. Yes, sir.

Mr. TABER. How many do you expect to have?

General BARRIGER. So far as this particular project is concerned it is roughly the same number, because it is based on the tank population. Mr. TABER. The tank population is expected to be 900. How many was it a couple of months ago?

General BARRIGER. I would like to give you a figure based on certain knowledge, but I cannot do that. I can only make an estimate. My estimate is between 300 and 400.

Mr. TABER. Three hundred to four hundred?

General BARRIGER. Because that division was very much under strength and with a different type tank.

Mr. TABER. You mean it was overstrength?
General BARRIGER. No. Very much under.

WASHING FACILITIES

Mr. TABER. Under. Now, let us consider this washing matter. You were able to wash the tanks with the rig that you had there before, were you not?

General NOLD. Not too satisfactorily,

General BARRIGER. Not too satisfactorily.

Mr. TABER. Was this not the set-up especially for a tank set-up? General BARRIGER. It was set up in World War II; yes, sir.

Mr. TABER. You must have had tanks there in just as great a profusion then as you expect to have in the days to come?

General BARRIGER. Well, no. They had tank destroyers.

Mr. TABER. What was that?

General BARRIGER. They had tank destoryers in World War II at this place, which it a lighter vehicle,

Mr. TABER. Where did they have tanks? Where did they have heavy vehicles?

General BARRIGER. They had tanks at Knox and Beale and Chaffee and Pine Camp and Polk and Campbell and several other locations throughout the country.

Mr. TABER. They had big tanks there in World War II, did they not?

General BARRIGER. Not as big as these; no, sir. We did not have a tank of this size then.

Mr. TABER. Are they using these other tanks now?

General BARRIGER. I do not know how far along they are equipped; but they will use them in the immediate future.

Mr. TABER. I think that is all.

Mr. PLUMLEY. Mr. Chairman, might I ask a question?

Mr. SHEPPARD. You may, Mr. Plumley.

Mr. PLUMLEY. Do you have in mind the facilities at these places you have mentioned as relatively comparable or noncomparable to those you seek to obtain for this place?

General BARRIGER. I should say noncomparable because all of these tank parks designed in World War II were not designed for this weight vehicle. It is analogous, I think, to the air problem where they have heavier aircraft now and the runways will not take them.

Mr. PLUMLEY. Does that mean you will seek an appropriation at some time later to build the same type of base at all these other fields? General BARRIGER. Not necessarily. It all depends on how many armored divisions go into a troop basis. We cannot foresee what that

is to be now. This is based on the present troop basis, a division in being.

Mr. PLUMLEY. That is all.

FORT LEWIS, Wash.

Mr. SHEPPARD. Gentlemen, let us pick up the next item, "Fort Lewis, Wash.," in which you are making a request for $272,000, and this is reflected in your justifications on page 12.

Will you make your presentation of that requirement, please? General NOLD. This applies to the telephone and signal building and cable vault, Mr. Chairman. The equipment to be installed already is in hand, quite largely.

It provides, also, for the relocation of two structures that are already in there but in an area that is desired for this particular building in order to get well within the administrative area, cutting down somewhat on the length of the distribution lines.

The telephone exchange and appurtenances is estimated at $246,000. The building proposed is for the construction of a permanent-type, two-story, fireproof building, including basement and pertinent facilities, and cable vault for use as indicated.

It has been determined that the building should be located in the vicinity of the post and divisional headquarters and other administrative activities in order to obtain the maximum operational efficiency and control. Therefore, this project includes the removal and relocation of the existing post office and finance buildings to permit construction in the desired location.

At present the telephone exchange is located in a temporary building which is inadequate to accommodate the additional equipment for the present and proposed future expansion. In addition, the building is beyond economical repair and is a fire hazard.

This project will provide a building which will be adequate to accommodate a new automatic switchboard for the ultimate expansion of 4,000 lines. It will also provide space for the post signal office, signal property office, communications office, and communications accounts office.

RELOCATION OF BUILDINGS

Mr. SHEPPARD. Am I to assume from the manner of your presentation that those buildings that are to be replaced have each reached a state of disintegration to the degree that you are going to demolish them or remove them from that particular area?

General NOLD. No, sir. The two that will be moved will continue to be used for the present purposes, but will be moved to another area. The functions that will be moved to the new building, which include the post signal office and the signal property office and communications office and communications accounts office will release spacefor other purposes.

Mr. SHEPPARD. In other words, when you use the term "relocation of the existing post office and finance buildings" you mean they are still going to be used?

General NOLD. Yes, sir.

Mr. SHEPPARD. Are you going to physically move those buildings to a new location?

General NOLD. Yes, sir.