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line with our present records. For instance, one man will say, "I want to put up some houses to sell," or, "I have some property and I want to put up houses for rent, but I do not want to go under the Wherry bill formula." There have been any number of cases such as that, but I am not sufficiently acquainted with the details to give you concrete examples.

Mr. SHEPPARD. What is your thinking, gentlemen, relative to the necessity for an expeditious solution of this problem? Are you concerned to the degree that there should be some special attention to it or not?

Admiral PRIDE. I will say, frankly, I am.

Admiral SHERMAN. I feel that is a problem that is going to require early attention, but it is one that we must, in my mind, analyze very carefully in connection with this accelerated program because of the urgent necessity for funneling as much as possible of our activities and expenditures at this time into increasing our combat forces. Mr. SHEPPARD. That is right.

Admiral SHERMAN. Which are far from adequate.

Mr. SHEPPARD. And that, in my opinion, would be a very definite answer to the expeditious consideration of the Wherry bill function, whether we like it or not. If it is an avenue of solution within the bounds of economic reason, we should intensify our efforts in reaching a solution to that problem instead of having it pending as long as it has been before the respective departments. I think that is a reasonable conclusion.

PROPER UTILIZATION OF INDUSTRIAL CAPACITY

I have another question on a different subject. Is it right for me to assume that because of the type of plane production that Navy has as against the requirements of the Air Force, that your type of production may be had and there is enough other industrial capacity left to take care of the requirements of the Air Force without retarding the procurement program on the part of either branch? Do I make myself clear?

Admiral PRIDE. You mean, would there be competition, or would there be soft spots in this production?

Mr. SHEPPARD. That is right.

Admiral PRIDE. Off the record.

(Discussion off the record.)

Mr. SHEPPARD. How carefully on the top level has your thinking been applied to assure full utilization of our industrial capacity, which, of course, is going to be short, as we know?

Admiral SHERMAN. I will say first on the record there is a general recognition of the problem of coordinating military production and harmonizing production for other purposes with the essential military production.

An example of the problem is in the field of electronics where any accelerated program in the service involves considerable production of electronic material, and it also involves the services of individuals trained in and by the Navy for the operation and maintenance of electronic equipment. That is a very definite and important problem

at this time.

Mr. SHEPPARD. Am I right in assuming in the electronics field that it is going to be necessary that a great amount of our industrial capacity will have to be applied to the military as against the domestic use?

Admiral SHERMAN. That is true. There is going to be a serious problem, but it is one I am confident will be resolved satisfactorily. I think the inherent capacity of this country to handle such problems will produce satisfactory results.

Mr. SHEPPARD. I have no further questions.

CIVILIAN PERSONNEL REQUIREMENTS

Mr. SIKES. I think that you have made an excellent presentation. However, I would like to have some additional information about civilian personnel.

Tell me, please, how many additional civilians you will need to employ as a result of the requests for $950,000,000?

Admiral PRIDE. All of our civilian increase was included in the 1951 basic request. There are no civilians in this $950,000,000 at all.

Mr. SIKES. How many civilians were included in the request that you made last week before the committee?

Admiral Pride. In all, 14,424.

Mr. MAHON. Will you pardon me for an interjection? Either you overestimated your civilian requirements previously or you underestimate your civilian requirements now, because it is physically impossible to purchase and receive delivery of $950,000,000 worth of planes without additional civilian personnel.

Admiral PRIDE. Most of these planes will not be delivered until next year.

Mr. MAHON. But you have pointed out that the percentage of delivery would be rapidly accelerated and that plants would go on two shifts a day and that you would get delivery faster. I am not quibbling, but Mr. Sikes has a very good point and there is no way to escape it, as I see it.

Admiral PRIDE. That would show up, I would think, in next year's appropriation. Undoubtedly there will be some more work. Mr. MAHON. Anyone can see that.

Admiral PRIDE. We think that we can do it with the 14,424 that we asked for before. It will be hard to do, but I think we can do it. For instance, much of the contracting we would do would involve changing only quantities and not types of aircraft.

Mr. SIKES. Let me approach this from another standpoint. How many civilians did you have on board as of June 30, 1950? Admiral PRIDE. 64,456.

Mr. SIKES. Not for the entire Naval Establishment?

Admiral PRIDE. No, sir; that is for the naval aeronautical organization only.

Mr. SIKES. We will continue to talk about aeronautics, but I would like for companion figures to be provided for the entire Naval Establishment. Would you like to give us those figures now, Admiral Hopwood?

Admiral HopwOOD. I will have to give you an estimated number. Mr. SIKES. Prepare and give them for the record to parallel each of the questions that I have previously asked. Give the figures for the entire Naval Establishment and for naval aeronautics.

Admiral HOPWOOD. On the 30th of June 1950, for the entire Naval Establishment, there was an estimated 275,000.

Mr. TABER. Does that include the 64,000?

Admiral HoPWOOD. That is the entire Naval Establishment.

Mr. SIKES. As a result of the total program, including the $950,000,000, how many will you have on board at the peak level of the year 1951, both for naval aeronautics and for total Navy?

Admiral HOPWOOD. About 350,000, sir.

Mr. SIKES. Representing an increase of how many?

Admiral HopWOOD. Of 75,000 above the 30th of June number. These are civilian employees only in the Naval Establishment.

Mr. SIKES. Give me comparable figures now for naval aeronautics. Admiral PRIDE. The total will be 78,880. We go from 64,456 to 78,880.

Mr. SIKES. Now, tell me, at the time that the Johnson economy orders went into effect, you had on board how many total Navy and naval aeronautics?

Admiral HOPWOOD. 363,000 total Navy.

Admiral PRIDE. We had between 81,000 and 82,000, as I recall, in the naval aeronautical organization.

Mr. SIKES. So that your total Navy civilian requirements are not going to exceed those you had at the time the Johnson economy order went into effect?

Admiral PRIDE. That is correct.

Mr. SIKES. I think that is a good showing. It is better than the showing of the other services.

Who has screened these civilian requirement figures to be sure all of them are absolutely required?

Admiral HopwOOD. They were screened first in the Office of the Director of the Budget and Reports and were next screened in the Office of the Secretary of Defense by the management subcommittee working under the authority of the Secretary of Defense.

Mr. SIKES. Is the increase proportionate among the various branches and classes of the service, or is it top heavy on office workers and light on mechanical employees?

Admiral HOPWOOD. I think the predominance is on technical and mechanical people due principally to the reactivation of ships as concerns shipyards personnel, and the step-up in production in other material bureau activities-ordnance, and so forth.

There is some increase in the Marine Corps due to replacing military personnel with civilians in order to permit the combat personnel to go out to the field.

EFFECT OF INCREASE IN NUMBER OF NAVAL AIRCRAFT

Mr. SIKES. Now, I would like to know how the picture of increased aircraft production is going to be reflected in the use of aircraft carriers. Will there be a requirement for additional aircraft carriers as a result of the increase in plane production?

Admiral SHERMAN. May I answer that? The requirement for aircraft results from an increase in requirements for the operation of aircraft carriers, and the recognition of the requirements for replacement of tactical units for service on those ships. As you probably know, we are now operating in the vicinity of Korea two Essex carriers

and two escort carriers. At the beginning of hostilities in Korea we were operating seven large carriers in the Navy and we are reactivating two as rapidly as possible. That will result in an increased requirement for carrier aircraft.

In this program there is an expansion, a very important expansion, in our patrol plane squadrons for antisubmarine warfare, and also in the small squadrons for operation from light and escort carriers in antisubmarine warfare.

In general I would say that the figure of 7,335 operating aircraft is a bare minimum for meeting our increased requirements for general readiness of the fleet and the combat operations now in progress.

PRIOR YEAR FUNDS IMPOUNDED

Mr. TABER. Admiral, turning to the records that I have taken from the Department of Defense, there is a total of unobligated funds in the Navy of $508,100,000 as of June 30. That is represented by $305,600,000 reserve in fiscal year 1951 and $77,600,000 of other reserves, and $124,900,000 of unobligated apportionments.

I am wondering how much of that over-all represents a reserve out of the appropriations heretofore made prior to July 1, for the construction of aircraft.

Admiral PRIDE. There was $125,000,000 placed in reserve by the Office of the Secretary of Defense.

Mr. TABER. $125,000,000 was held out from the Air Corps by the Secretary of Defense?

Admiral PRIDE. Yes, sir, from naval aviation.

Mr. TABER. Was any of the rest of these reserves or unobligated balances attributable to the Bureau of Aeronautics?

Admiral PRIDE. Yes.

Mr. TABER. How much?

Admiral PRIDE. $6,000,000.

Mr. TABER. What is that in?

Admiral PRIDE. I would like to have my fiscal officer, Captain Dodson, answer that.

Captain DODSON. We had $6,000,000 withheld in the appropriation "Aviation, Navy," which covers flight operations, station operations, our related aircraft overhaul program, and other similar supporting programs, sir.

AIRCRAFT PROCUREMENT PROGRAM, 1951

Mr. TABER. You are planning to get what is being provided here, as I understand it, approximately 2,836 additional aircraft—1,765 plus 1,067?

Captain SCHOECH. There were 980 in the original program, plus 1,067 in the so-called first supplemental, plus 1,310 in this.

Mr. TABER. That makes 2,377?

Captain SCHOECH. That is the total requested in our supplemental estimates.

Mr. TABER. How many in the regular 1951 program?

Captain SCHOECH. 980.

Mr. TABER. And the over-all figure that you are planning on is what?

Captain SCHOECH. 3,357.

Mr. TABER. How many first-line aircraft have you presently? Admiral CASSADY. As of June 30, 1950, we had a total of 2,707 firstline aircraft available.

Mr. TABER. How many of these 3,357 would be first-line?

Admiral CASSADY. They would all be first-line, sir. I have a breakdown here if you would like to see it of the types that we would get to total the 3,357.

Mr. TABER. Yes; I should like to see that.

(Discussion off the record.)

Mr. TABER. With reference to these patrol craft, they do not operate from carriers, do they?

Admiral CASSADY. No, sir; some of them are seaplanes and some of them are land planes.

Mr. TABER. And the transports do not?

Admiral CASSADY. No, sır; there again some are sea transports and others are land planes.

Mr. TABER. The first two brackets are all carrier-type planes?
Admiral CASSADY. That is correct.

Mr. TABER. How many of these first-line planes that you had on hand on June 30 were carrier-type planes?

Admiral CASSADY. Roughly one-half of those are carrier-type aircraft. In other words, about 1,300 or 1,400 of the 2,700 are carriertype planes. That is an approximate figure.

Mr. TABER. I assume you have placed some of these planes on order since the 1st of July?

Admiral CASSADY. Yes, sir.

Mr. TABER. Then I shall ask, How many did you have on order the 1st of July?

Mr. MAHON. On order and not delivered?

Mr. TABER. Yes.

Captain SCHOECH. May I answer that off the record, sir? (Discussion off the record.)

NUMBER OF CARRIERS IN OPERATION

Mr. TABER. How many of these carriers have you in operation? Admiral CASSADY. As of today, sir, we have seven large carriers in operation; one is completing construction and the ninth one is being pulled out of the Reserve Fleet, out of mothballs and put back in active service. In addition to that we will have a total of 10 of the smaller-type carriers, the escort and the cruiser-type carriers, giving a total of 19 carriers in full operation. In addition to that we are taking out of mothballs one more of the lighter-type carriers which we will use for training purposes.

Mr. TABER. Then you expect to have 9 plus 20?

Admiral CASSADY. 9 of the large type and 11 of the small, giving a grand total of 20.

Mr. TABER. Eleven of the small?

Admiral CASSADY. Yes, sir.

Mr. TABER. A total of 20?

Admiral CASSADY. Yes, sir.

Mr. TABER. Did you have 11 of the small ones and were you going to put one more out?

Admiral CASSADY. No, sir. That is a total of 11.

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