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pression of Communist-inspired guerrilla warfare. During fiscal year 1950 under the authority granted to the President by section 303 and the appropriation made therefor, a beginning of provision for arming defense forces in this area was made. Substantial additions to this initial effort are now being worked out under the recently enacted amendments to the Mutual Defense Assistance Act of 1949, but it is already apparent that this effort must be vigorously and promptly increased. The program proposed in this supplemental estimate contemplates provision of modern military matériel in sufficient quantities to provide not only for the complete equipping of forces for internal security in the Philippines, Indochina, Thailand, Indonesia, and other nations in this area, which are oriented to the United States; but also to make a beginning in providing the material requirements to create from such forces units which may make a real contribution to defense against external aggression. The details of these programs may not be fully determined on the basis of estimates which are shown here since American military missions are now arriving in this area to initiate joint planning. For the provision of training and equipment of these forces it is desirable to proceed as rapidly as possible to eliminate any necessity for intervention of UN-sponsored United States troops as has occurred in Korea. Army

Content: The proposed matériel program for the Philippines is planned to provide military equipment and spare parts to balance stocks and provide maintenance for United States-type equipment previously supplied under authorized aid programs or through disposal of surplus United States equipment left in that country. For other title III countries, the programs are planned to provide some modern equipment to create a nucleus of a modern force. Programs also provide for transportation, packing, and handling for that portion of this program to be delivered in fiscal year 1951.

Distribution.-By technical service, approximate equipment costs are as follows: Signal

$20, 095, 848 Ordnance

143, 915, 084 Engineer

6, 058, 515 Other

3, 330, 553 Packing, handling, and transportation..

6, 600, 000 Total..

180, 000, 000 Navy

The supplemental program of naval aid for title III countries is based on requests received from these countries which could not be fulfilled within the fiscal limitations of programs approved in these areas. Detailed development of these additional programs is under continuing review and will be finally determined on the basis of the report of the Joint Interdepartmental Survey Mission now in the Far East making a study of requirements.

In general, naval programs in the Far East have the same general purposes as in title I and title II countries, with the further objective of enabling navies or coast guards of these far eastern nations to maintain effective antisubmarine and antipiracy patrols and to prevent internal water-borne infiltration of Communist guerrilla or bandit groups. Air Force

The supplemental Air Force 1951 program will provide equipment to increase the strength of the air forces in the far eastern countries. The amount of equipment programed for this supplemental estimate is limited to the capability of these nations to absorb modern air equipment and employ it effectively.

Modern jet fighters as well as conventional aircraft and necessary support equipment will be provided as well as radio, radar, and wire communications equipment needed for the increased air operations.

Ammunition, small arms and machine guns, bombs and rockets will be provided in direct relation to aircraft for support of operating units. Motor transport and special-purpose vehicles will be provided to meet the operational needs of air units.

Mr. SHEPPARD. You may high light any significant portion of the general statement you wish to specifically call to the attention of the committee.

Mr. Ohly. I would like to emphasize that the $300,000,000 for the Far East, which is relatively far larger than the amounts that we

originally programed for the Far East, is a direct reflection of what has recently happened in the Far East and of our concern for things that might happen in that area which all of us are familiar with. I cannot add, without going off the record, to the justification which is contained in this general statement, except to indicate the probability that a substantial portion of the amount requested will be required in Indochina where active hostilities are going on at the present timehostilities which are intense and involve large forces.

Mr. SHEPPARD. As this particular item has been composed for the purpose of presentation, it falls into the same basic pattern with perhaps some refinements, as that of the other titles you have already referred to, does it not?

General LEMNITZER. That is correct.

Mr. SHEPPARD. As questions are asked, if you want to go off the record, you have that privilege.

General LEMNITZER. May I make one comment by way of background on this title? As a result of the President's direction, the aid under the previous programs for the Philippines has been very much accelerated with a view of providing them the means, particularly with respect to ammunition, to meet the internal security threat which exists there. The first shipments have already been delivered to Indochina comprising transport aircraft, which were most necessary in support of the posts along the Indochina frontier.

DISPATCH OF SURVEY TEAM TO FAR EAST

In order to get to a really solid program for the future, the Departments of State and Defense and ECA have dispatched a survey team to that area which is currently considering the military operations contemplated in those areas and the development of military-aid programs in accordance with those operations.

We have had a considerable problem in southeast Asia in determining their precise requirements and translating those requirements into military-aid programs. The survey group which is now out there will provide the basis for our programs in the future. We will therefore get first-hand information obtained by United States officers, in contact with the national forces involved.

Mr. SHEPPARD. With specific reference to transport aircraft, do you find yourself somewhat embarrassed in the matter of a lack of availability of that type of aircraft?

General LEMNITZER. Colonel Klein, of the Air Force, can answer that question.

Colonel KLEIN. That is correct, sir, but we did manage to scrape together enough to get some over there to them. But you are right, the available inventory of transport aircraft is getting small.

Mr. SHEPPARD. Mr. Engel, have you any questions?

INDEFINITENESS OF PROGRAM

Mr. ENGEL. Your statement refers to the Philippines, Indochina, Thailand, Indonesia, and other nations. I am not satisfied. I want to know who gets what and how much. How much is going to the Philippines? How much is going to Indochina? How much is going to Thailand? How much is going to Indonesia? And how much is

going to the other nations? You must have had some definite amount in mind for each country, to reach this figure.

General LEMNITZER. May I go off the record?
Mr. ENGEL. Yes.
(Discussion off the record.)

Nr. ENGEL. You have given us the 1950 program. What is your projected program for the supplemental 1951?

(Discussion off the record.) Mr. ENGEL. I do not see how you can get a figure unless you have allocated a certain amount to each of these countries, unless it is just a pure guess. Why did you not say $800,000,000 instead of the figure you have here, or less ?

General Lemnitzer. For the reason that the information on which we have based the requirements, the over-all requirements, of the area would indicate that this much of the total amount should be devoted to that area.

Mr. ENGEL. What is the total amount in title III?
General LEMNITZER. $303,000,000.
Mr. ENGEL. What is the total amount that you had in 1951?

General LEMNITZER. We had $75,000,000 and $16,000,000, a total of $91,000,000.

Mr. ENGEL. That is for this same area? General LEMNITZER. That is correct. Mr. ENGEL. You do not know who is going to get the other $200,000,000.

General LEMNITZER. Yes, sir; we do have an idea of the general distribution and it will be very much in the proportion that I have indicated in the figures which I have just given you.

(Discussion off the record.) Mr. ENGEL. What is the total that these countries have asked for? Mr. OHLY. Off the record. (Discussion off the record.)

Mr. ENGEL. Can you tell us the amount that you have in here for each of these countries?

Mr. OHLY. If I may go off the record?
Mr. ENGEL. Yes.
(Statement off the record.)

Mr. ENGEL. As a matter of fact, you do not know what you are going to need. You might need less than this or you might need this much, and you might not.

Mr. Ohly. We certainly will not need less than this.

Mr. ENGEL. Based on requests that have been made by the French, they are going to ask a lot more than they need.

Mr. Ohly. I would like to make it very plain that nothing goes out under this program to any of these countries except as we have had an opportunity to screen the requirements and make sure that the forces to which they are going are actually going to be in being, and that their training has reached a stage where they can utilize that equipment effectively and maintain it.

Mr. ENGEL. I am not satisfied with the showing on this item at all.

General LEMNITZER. In the Department of Defense we believe the need for equipment considerably exceeds this figure.

Mr. ENGEL. You come in here, and you do not know who is going to get the money and you do not know what it is going to be spent for.

General LEMNITZER. Yes, sir; we do.

Mr. ENGEL. If you do not know who is going to get the money and you do not know what the requirements are going to be, I am not satisfied at all.

Mr. Only. The figure as to total requirements should not be in the record.

Mr. ENGEL. You may tell us anything you wish off the record, but I would like to have some information about it; as to what these countries are going to get. They have always asked two or three times as much as they expected to get, expecting to be cut down. That was true of lend-lease and of all the programs right along.

General LEMNITZER. Unless they can prove that they actually have the forces in existence and can get us to agree that their plans are sound, they do not get any equipment under this program, sir.

(Discussion off the record.)
Mr. SHEPPARD. Mr. Taber, have you any questions?

NUMBER OF CIVILIAN PERSONNEL

Mr. TABER. I do not think I care to go into the requirements of these countries, but I would like to have you give me a picture of the. number of personnel, civilian personnel, that would be involved in this whole program for titles I, II, and III. Have you any kind of a breakdown of it?

Mr. O'HARA. There are two different things involved in personnel under this program, Mr. Taber. The first one is the administrative and operating personnel. In this estimate there is a detail of the amounts that will be added to personnel costs by reason of this added total.

Mr. TABER. What are the original figures? Does that show in this book?

Mr. O'HARA. The original personnel requirements for all agencies are shown in the justifications which were submitted when the regular 1951 mutual defense assistance program was being considered.

Mr. TABER. That we do not have because that was over in the Senate and it has never been before this committee.

Mr. O'HARA. The total number over all for all agencies, including State and Economic Cooperation Administration

Mr. TABER. Do you have a breakdown of those by those departments?

Mr. O'HARA. I could give you the number for the Department of Defense. The total number in the regular 1951 budget for mutual defense assistance program

Mr. TABER. That is the regular budget?
Mr. O'HARA. That is right.
Mr. TABER. And this is for the Defense Department?

Mr. O'Hara. For defense the field, amounted to 3,116 positions, in the Army, Navy, and Air Force. The average number was 2,666, because the positions represented an increase during the course of

. In addition to that, in the missions overseas, in the departmental headquarters of the Department of Defense and the military departments in Washington there were 1,021 positions, with 974 as an average through the year.

the year

Mr. ENGEL. You mean man-years?
Mr. O'HARA. The same thing; yes, sir.
Mr. TABER. Yes.

Mr. O'HARA. Those are the supervisory personnel and the program direction personnel in the entire program for the Department of Defense.

In addition to that there are a large number of employees engaged in production activities, in depot supply activities, "blue-collar" personnel and production personnel generally.

The numbers of those are: For Army, estimated in connection with the 1951 program, 29,979 man-years; for Navy, 3,721 man-years; for Air Force, 811 man-years. The total for the Department of Defense on those employees is 34,511 production employees.

I have a table here which analyzes that which I would be glad to provide for you and for the record, which gives you the whole set of those figures.

Mr. SHEPPARD. Is there any reason why that table could not go into the record?

Mr. O'HARA. No reason, sir.

Mr. SHEPPARD. Mr. Reporter, please insert the break-down of that in the record at this point.

(The document is as follows:)

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