The National Defender is the only one on which there is a possibility we may have to reserve a decision on that for a few days. But that will be governed by the shipowners' desires there to make a further physical check.

I will say as my prior tentative conclusion on that, on the basis of the record that we have before us, unless the owner of the National Defender chooses to make some effort to go to Soviet Union and attempt to work that out it seems to me that the charterer has met his burdên on the basis of his information and the correspondence that he has not been able to persuade the Soviets to do that.

Well, if the owner of the National Defender desires to make any further independent efforts he can through diplomatic channels to verify further facts and so on.

Now, gentlemen, I inform not only the owners of these ships that might be in question but also the representatives of the four shipping associations, AMA, AMMI, CASL, and PASL, that we would have this meeting and that we would be happy if they could have representative present. We also informed Mr. Hall, Mr. Gleason, and Mr. Calhoon. If it is all right, Mr. Hall, just to get all of the shipowners' views before him, I will give an opportunity to each of these associations, if they have a representative and would like to say anything specifically but suggest that in view of our time we limit each one to, say, 3 minutes.

If there is a time problem for Mr. Hall and his associates and if the ship representatives do not have the same time problem we would be glad to hear from Mr. Hall, first.

At this point I would like simply to get into the record the telegram that Mr. Calhoon sent me yesterday. This is the individual telegram. Many of you have seen it. It is a short one. I will read it:

This acknowledges your telegram of this date.
This is from Calhoon to me:

In the last 2 days the Continental Grain Co. has refused to hire five Americanflag ships that were offered at fair and reasonable rates to carry wheat to Russia in the next few months. Each of the ships met the terms and rates specified by the U.S. Maritime Administration. Each ship was rejected for transparently ridiculous reasons. Is is clear that Continental is still determined to make a windfall profit of $7 a ton by using foreign-flag ships for the rest of the program in complete violation of the Government stipulations that 50 percent of the wheat and wheat flour must move in American ships. The replacement of American ships with foreign tonnage as Continental plans will cost the United States large sums in foreign exchange. We are convinced from its failure to protect the public interest, the rates of the U.S. merchant marine, the Maritime Administration is either in collusion with Continental or the Maritime Administrator and that portion of his staff charged with supervising this program are completely incompetent. We advised there are enough American-flag ships available and interested to carry more than 200,000 of the 281,000 tons for which Continental has requested a waiver of the U.S.-flag shipping requirement.

We urge you to conduct an immediate investigation of this flagrant abuse.

In my response to Mr. Calhoon yesterday, I told him I will put the full telegram in the record:

This is a very serious charge and I would greatly appreciate having from you today full particulars of specific case to support that charge. We don't claim to be perfect here in the Maritime Administration but we do try to act honorably in good faith and we do try to do our job competently. I regret you felt it was necessary to send what appears to me to be a rather intemperate telegram. By separate wire I have informed you of our scheduled meeting

tomorrow. I will greatly appreciate your personal attendance at that meeting. We will make every effort to consider any specific case of any improper or wrong decision on our part which you may bring up and we will explain fully what we did and why.

I received a telegram today, this morning, from Mr. Calhoon in which he states that he is on the west coast and it will not be possible for him to appear here personally. I would like to ask at this point, is there a representative of Mr. Calhoon's present?

Mr. HALL. There is a mighty good friend of his here, that is me but I am not a representative.

Mr. GILES. Designated representative. I did not know whether he would have someone here or not. He goes on in his telegram to mention the SS Maren, 16,000-ton ship which was declined by Continental, the SS Maren which was owned by Mr. Henry Dowd. You have heard our discussion on that. You have heard my indicated decision which was that it looks to be acceptable. The SS Transorleans he has mentioned in his telegram, that is fixed.

STATEMENT OF L. C. STOVALL-Resumed

Mr. STOVALL. Yes.

Mr. GILES. The SS Oceanana is fixed. When was it fixed?
Mr. STOVALL. Tuesday morning.

Mr. GILES. This is Thursday. When was the Transorleans fixed?
Mr. STOVALL. Yesterday.

Mr. GILES The Mount Washington Victory, we have just finished with that where it was withdrawn. Those are the specific cases he mentions.

I am sorry Mr. Calhoon is not here in person. So far as I am concerned the telegram that he sent in here is irresponsible, and it is libelous. I will not attempt and do not pass judgment on myself as to whether I am in collusion with anybody or whether I am competent or incompetent. I should like to say that I do make a finding for the record that Captain Goodman is not in collusion.

I also make a finding that he is not incompetent and his staff. And if anybody has any specific information that they can present in open meeting in an orderly way to be considered in a judicial fashion, I wish he would come forward.

I regard this telegram as being very unfortunate as representing too much what has happened too much in maritime labor. Not many but these are the specific examples. I can only say, expressing my own personal view, that there is a limit I think to what this country, what this Government, and what the public generally will tolerate from a few irresponsible labor union officials in the maritime industry. Last year it was the Savannah. This year, a few days ago, it was a so-called wildcat strike, again in violation of a contract. Well, I believe in the right of people to strike and not to work. I believe in their right to organize and I believe in the right particularly of the maritime laboring people and seamen.

I am not one of those who moans or groans about the high cost of American shipping. The high costs of American shipping for the most part are due to higher wages and I do not regard it as unwise or undesired that American seamen have the same living standard as other citizens of this country, in fact I think it is desirable.

I know not much, I am not an expert in shipping. I know enough of our history of shipping to know that 20, 30, at least 30 or 40 years ago the seamen on the American ships were not much better off, if any, than the seamen on many foreign ships. Well, we had the same situation in American industry.

In the maritime industry then we had, as in much of American industry, employers and managers taking advantage, unreasonable advantage, of the workingman. The labor union movement has been necesasry to even up the balance. It has done it and I want to make that remark because I want it to be clearly understood that I do not regard labor unions per se as undesirable or labor union officials generally as unwise or irresponsible. Just the absolute contrary. It is only when we have a few exceptions, and we do, both on the employers side and the employees side. I would not be making these remarks but for the fact that I did receive this telegram. I happened to receive it though after I read it in the newspapers. It was carried very widely in the papers as this sort of thing always is. That is more news apparently than something less exciting and appalling.

I would simply express this hope that the labor union officials in the maritime industry would bear with us. There have been some instances where labor union people have been misled by shipowners as to what the facts are and they have accepted statements from shipowners as to the specific cases and those statements were not correct. That happened in my opinion in regard to the Cargill waiver. So, we have this case before us, or this situation. My only purpose in commenting at this point is to make it clear that I regard such a telegram sent even to public officials, while public officials are supposed to take all that is thrown at them and then some, I regard a charge of moral turpitude or immorality or collusion, "collusion" meaning that I have sat down, Captain Goodman has sat down with Continental and for fraudulent purposes we worked out some things, the full implication there is most anything your imagination can take you to, the passing of money or anything else. As I say, it is grossly improper, it is baseless, and I will hold this record open for as many days as necessary in the event that Mr. Calhoon should have the courage to come in and support his charges against Captain Goodman and his staff.

If he desires, I will not hear any charges against myself but I will certainly make every effort on my part to see that the proper officials who would judge me will be available to hear that same charge against

me.

Now, it is as difficult to say these things in general without leaving the wrong impression on specifics. Many matters that we have had to deal with in the last 2 months, since November, there have been different points of view, reasonable differences, and I am not going to claim and do not claim that we have been perfect or 100 percent right in everything. I do not think we have. I do say that we have reached the general standard of competence that the average competent individual would expect from the average competent Government official and I do think that, to my knowledge and I firmly believe, that Captain Goodman and his staff and this agency have acted honorably.

I say those things to get this behind us and to look ahead in the hope that the maritime unions, maritime labor, will do no more or no less than what they would ask of Government officials or of owners and that is to act reasonably under all circumstances.

Now, that is my little statement on Mr. Calhoon. I am very happy and pleased that Mr. Paul Hall who is an outstanding distinguished leader in the maritime labor movement is able to be here with us. Mr. Hall is not associated with this telegram I have just mentioned and my remarks in respect to collusion or the improper behavior I have referred to are in no way directed to him. Mr. Hall was on a different telegram with Mr. Gleason as to which I do not have any complaint.

It is a critical telegram but it is not an unreasonable one. I am very happy that Mr. Hall could be here. We shall be pleased to hear from Mr. Hall at this time.

STATEMENT OF PAUL HALL, PRESIDENT, SEAFARERS INTERNATIONAL UNION OF NORTH AMERICA (AFL-CIO)

Mr. HALL. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First of all I would like to express my appreciation for the invitation to attend here. It is regrettable we did not have more time to properly prepare but we understand the nature of the circumstances.

I would be somewhat less than a man, Mr. Chairman, if I did not take exception to the manner in which you have acted on this rostrum this afternoon toward my friend and colleague, Jesse Calhoon, because you have seen fit to take and make the remarks that you have and particularly at the time I am coming on this stand.

I repeat, I feel it appropriate that I should make some comment myself relative to this matter. I have listened to you conduct this meeting and I thought you were doing an excellent job. I thought the manner in which you called this meeting was a fine gesture. But I must say, Mr. Chairman, that you disappointed me very greatly with this kind of assault on the character of an individual who was not here because in doing so, in my opinion, you have done precisely what you have accused him of.

I don't attempt to justify the language of Jesse Calhoon. I don't attempt to justify his thinking, nor yours either for that measure, but it would have seemed to me, Mr. Chairman, having taken exception to the remarks that Calhoon made that it would have been appropriate to allow him to come here himself.

Mr. Chairman, in particular, I take exception to the remark you made which was an innuendo or reflection against the courage of the individual man when you asked if he has the courage to come. Mr. Chairman, I know Calhoon. He might not be the greatest author and no William Shakespeare, but Mr. Chairman, he has guts and courage and I assure you he will come to see you.

I say again, I regret very much in seeing a person in your position of such responsibility and a person who at the beginning of this hearing indicated such a fair attitude, let this thing which to me is not that important, evidently overwhelm you to such a degree that you have been busy all day soliciting character recommendations indirectly for yourself and your associates.

39-375-64- -17

I don't think that Captain Goodman needs any character recommendation at all. Frankly, I don't think you do. I don't think anyone on this rostrum needs any character recommendation. I don't think that that in essence is what Calhoon meant when he wrote this letter. But I would prefer to wait and let Calhoon talk to you personally, Mr. Chairman, as I am sure he will.

Now, relative to the hearing itself, I will make my remarks brief. As you can see I have all kinds of files I intended to read here, but I don't intend to impose on your time nor your good nature, nor of your colleague sitting on this rostrum. I say that in part, Mr. Chairman, because I have heard enough here today to indicate what I believe is the basic problem in this whole situation.

For example, relative to the previous speaker here, Mr. Spalding, he indicated that the rate established had been recommended by Captain Goodman, some $18 and some odd cents, and trying to close out the deal with Continental they said if it is not $17 we are not interested.

Sitting where I was I am not sure I understood the language. I would have been greatly interested, Mr. Chairman, if you had pursued with vigor the reply to these people relative to that subject. I think that is right to the heart of the matter, Mr. Chairman.

You speak of collusion. I do not direct it to this body, I want to make this quite clear. You speak of manipulation, you speak of a lot of things. We are in an unfortunate position in the labor movement. We don't know you, we have not dealt with you over a period of years. However, we have dealt with lots of Government agencies under some of the most trying circumstances.

One of these circumstances some while back, Captain Goodman, I am sure, will recall quite clearly, resulted in the tieup of the vessel called the SS Salvada, a British ship lying in Lake Charles, La., moving rice either to Turkey or in that general area. We figured it had been moved out of position. It had been, in our opinion, a cargo that should have gone American and we tied that vessel up.

Consequently, a great amount of diplomatic heat arose. We met with State. We met with Labor. We met with everyone. They asked that we release this vessel in the interest of good diplomatic relationship. It was a British-flag vessel. On this plea and also on the consideration of an immediate meeting, or in the near future of a toplevel meeting representing the executive branch of this Government, where we could lay forth our facts and make our case.

Not in a public fashion, not name calling in public, but in an executive meeting or in the type of meeting appropriate for the occasion, because we had some rather serious charges to make. I believe, if I recall correctly, Captain Goodman, you were at that meeting, or were you?

Mr. GOODMAN. No, I am familiar a little bit with what you are saying.

Mr. HALL. The administration or this group was represented there. So was Agriculture, so was Labor, so were a number of the agencies. The chairman of this meeting was Mr. Arthur Goldberg, who was then the Secretary of Labor. I remember that Mr. Murphy, the Under Secretary, I think, at the time, of Agriculture, was there. There were several Under Secretaries and Assistant Secretaries.