fixed could be furnished-fixed to the premises could become part of them, I certainly wouldn't try to limit a group such as this. I would be as encouraging or as liberal as I could with them.

Mr. MCDONOUGH. Now, do you have any idea what amount of money should be necessary to take care of the various colleges who might take advantage of this?

Mr. MILLER. No, I haven't even tried to estimate that, but I imagine that it would be in keeping with what is being done under the college housing program now, and that is all we are trying to do-to give these recognized student cooperatives the same break that we give institutions where they want to do it themselves.

Mr. MCDONOUGH. Long-term mortgages at low interest rates.
Mr. MILLER. That is right.

Mr. MCDONOUGH. Thank you.

Mr. RAINS. Of course, I think the bill has been drafted that way but we would want to keep in mind that we would have to keep these true cooperatives, that we couldn't make loans to fraternities and things of that sort.

Mr. MILLER. Oh, no, in the bill itself, my bill, it specifically provides or in this bill which is similar it provides (1) this subsection without regard to their affiliation in any social, fraternal, or honorary organization. In other words, we were not trying to get a bill that will allow some fraternity that perhaps has some sources of money to get together and call themselves a cooperative.

Mr. RAINS. It has to be a true cooperative.

Mr. MILLER. Yes, we would safeguard that.

Mr. RAINS. Thank you, Mr. Miller. We appreciate your coming. Our next witness, and I assume on the same subject, is our colleague Harlan Hagen, of California. Come around, Mr. Hagen.

Mr. HAGEN. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, I shall try not to take too much of your time.

Mr. RAINS. We are glad to have you.

STATEMENT OF HON. HARLAN HAGEN, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS, STATE OF CALIFORNIA

Mr. HAGEN. I have a bill which I assume is identical with the one which Congressman Miller has and which I also assume is identical with the one presented by Senator Douglas in the Senate.

I might say at the outset that I do not have any part of the University of California in my district. I am a graduate of the institution, however, of the law school, and went there from 1934 through 1940. I did not reside in this student cooperative, but to describe the situation, I have visited law school classmates of mine who have lived there. The typical situation at Berkeley was that there were about 12,000 students then, and I believe there are more now, and the bulk of them did not live in fraternities or sororities, and they did not have at that time any college-sponsored dormitory housing.

As a consequence, most of the students lived in a corner room in some widow's house. Some of the rooms were not too good. They ran all of the way from $5 a month to $20 a month.

This Barrington Hall, which was a student cooperative, provided a real service at a low cost, comparable to that which could be secured

at these private homes. Not only was the cost of the rooms just as cheap as it was in this range of $5 to $20, but also they provided the equivalent of life in a fraternity, shall we say a little more serious I think perhaps and it met a real need, and as Mr. Miller has indicated, through the operation of over 25 years they have accumulated a substantial capital. So it has been a successful operation.

In connection with your questions, there are a great many forms of cooperatives, of course, which buy and hypothecate property, acquire debt all of the time. That would be true of this cooperative. It would have a continuing identity, although the individual ownerships in it, so to speak, would change, much as the ownerships in a corporation.

In the case of the University of California this cooperative is operated under the blessing of the university, and various members of the faculty serve as advisers to it.

I believe that it could be written in a fashion that there would be adequate guaranties for the housing authority in any loan of this kind. I might point out that this subject was covered in the Senate hearings.

In the report of hearings starting at page 653, there are some letter inserts. There is reference to this direct loan proposal in Mr. Miller's bill and my bill and, in addition, at one point there is stated an amendment should be made to section 201 (g) of the Housing Act so that college dormitories which do not normally have family units can receive the benefits of FHA mortgage insurance.

Under the present statute a student cooperative dormitory cannot receive FHA insurance unless the project is designed for family units. I think this is a different consideration from that contained in my bill and should also be considered by the Congress.

Mr. Chairman, I believe that is all I have to say, except in the Senate record of hearings there is a letter from Julian Zimmerman, Director of the HHFA, opposing this on the basis that there should be some adequate financial security.

Mr. RAINS. Don't you think that this committee should write into the act the necessary financial security, such as a cosigner or something of the sort.

Mr. HAGEN. I believe that would be possible.

Mr. RAINS. This is like a State or city as far as the university is concerned. They don't want their budget burdened with a direct charge against them, but they wouldn't be so burdened if you had something like a second mortgage.

Mr. HAGEN. Also this housing falls within a different category of cost as contrasted with what a university would normally build itself. University buildings would have to meet certain standards which, perhaps, this wouldn't meet, so they might be willing to cosign for it without actually engaging in the construction.

Mr. McDoNot GH. Mr. Chairman.

Mr. RAINS. Yes, Mr. McDonough.

Mr. McDoxoUGH. Mr. Hagen, you referred to Barrington Hall. That is the center of the present cooperative organization at the University of California.

Mr. HAGEN. At the time I was there they had one building and it extended through a whole block. I don't know how many units they had, but they must have had 500 students living there.

They managed it themselves. They did all of the labor. They had a student manager who later married my brother-in-law's sister. Mr. MCDONOUGH. Did the cooperative own Barrington Hall? Mr. HAGEN. That is my understanding; yes.

Mr. MCDONOUGH. Now in the writing of this legislation, this bill, do you think we should provide for the loans for the construction of these cooperatives, of course, with the understanding that it would be for the building alone, because these cooperative buildings would be erected on the campus no doubt, and, consequently the land would be owned by the university.

Mr. HAGEN. No, sir; I don't believe that is the proposition.

Barrington Hall is not built on the campus. It is not on university property. It is adjacent thereto; but it is owned by the cooperative. The realty itself is owned by the co-op.

Mr. MCDONOUGH. In other words, then you think this legislation should provide for a loan for the buying of the land and the building? Mr. HAGEN. Well, I assume, perhaps, if they could get a loan on the building they could, perhaps, raise the money to buy the realty, but that should certainly be considered.

Mr. MCDONOUGH. Just to get your view on that, do you mean the cooperative should own the land before the loan is granted, or should get the loan commitment with the understanding that they buy the land?

Mr. HAGEN. Well, I would say that I believe the loan should be for both the land and the construction, but if you get half a loaf, it would be better than nothing.

Mr. RAINS. That would have to be determined by regulations which now apply in the college-housing program. I think they would have to own the land, but we will let them work that out.

Mr. MCDONOUGH. You see, the loans heretofore on all housing have been conditioned on the fact that the land is owned, and that poses a question I was wondering about. Now, I have asked Mr. Miller, and I would like to ask you about the facilities for the operation of the place, the interior fittings, and others, furniture.

Mr. HAGEN. Well, I am certainly of the opinion that they could manage that. The experience of this Barrington Hall cooperative is significant because they acquired the building and the furniture and everything else without any guaranteed loan whatsoever, but it is not an ideal place for college residents. It met a need. I imagine they have improved it, but at the time it was a privilege for students who had to go to college on low budgets and it was better than they could otherwise get. It wouldn't be up to the standard of a dormitory built by the college itself, but I am certain that they could provide the minimum facilities for fixtures that they would need.

Mr. MCDONOUGH. Do you know whether any institutions have contributed to the college cooperatives on the campus of the University of California, such as the Ford Foundation, or others?

Mr. HAGEN. I have no knowledge of that.

Mr. MCDONOUGH. How did they acquire the assets they have; do you know from what source?

Mr. HAGEN. I guess just by dint of hard work, Congressman McDonough. They started out on a very small scale and ultimately they were able to get enough students living in one place that they were able to buy the building.

Mr. MCDONOUGH. Has there been any attempt to secede from the State of California?

Mr. HAGEN. Well, I don't believe the State of California has ventured into the guaranteeing of loans for any particular, to my knowledge, or various other activities that might be related.

Mr. MCDONOUGH. That is all.

Mr. HAGEN. Mr. Chairman, I have a letter addressed to Mr. Harry Kingman, a former athletic coach at the University of California, from a Dudley Dillard, head of the economics department at the University of Maryland, who apparently lived at this co-op at Berkeley and heartily endorsed it. I would like to insert that in the record. Mr. RAINS. It may be included.

Mr. HAGEN. Also a memorandum from Mr. H. C. Norton, who is the buyer-manager of the University of California's student co-op at Berkeley, Calif., in which he gives some of the background detail on this particular co-op.

Mr. RAINS. That may be included.

Mr. HAGEN. And one more letter from a Mrs. Richard Carlisle, who is a constituent of mine, who lived at a co-op.

Mr. RAINS. Very well.

(The letters referred to are as follows:)

CHINA LAKE, CALIF., July 5, 1958.

DEAR MR. HAGEN: Recently an amendment to the college housing program of the Housing Act of 1950 has been introduced to the House of Representatives. This would permit direct Federal loans to certain nonprofit organizations providing housing for university students.

My interest in this bill is in particular as an aid to the University of California Students' Cooperative Association at Berkeley. Due to university expansion some of the largest dorm facilities are being taken from the co-op for other purposes and their hope is to build a new dorm for 500 students to be largely financed under the provisions of the new bill.

I am an alumnae of Cal and of the co-op where I lived during my junior and senior years at Cal in 1941-43. I can vouch for how much this low-cost housing can mean to students trying to get through college with minimum finances. The cooperative at Cal has been operating for 25 years and has accomodated about 15,000 members during those years. I understand that they have over 600 students at present living in the co-ops and that the rate for board and lodging runs $204–$236 per semester compared to $380-$435 in the university dorms. The university is at present able to borrow from the Federal Government to construct such dorms and it seems to me that this privilege should be extended to the cooperatives who cater to the low-income student so effectively. Without this change in the bill the good the co-op can do will be seriously hampered by lack of dorm space.

Any support you can lend to the bill in question will be greatly appreciated. Please give my regards to Mrs. Hagen. My husband enjoyed meeting you both and chatting with her at greater length a couple of weeks ago. I have not forgotten how much she added to my pleasure while we were in Washington last year by her invitation to the cherry blossom luncheon.

Very sincerely yours,

Mrs. RICHARD T. CARLISLE.

FROM H. C. MORTON, BUYER-MANAGER, UNIVERSITY STUDENTS CO-OP,

BERKELEY, CALIF.

1. Estimated that 15,000 students have utilized USCA facilities in 25-year history.

2. Financial condition good. Have never defaulted on a loan or bill in our existence.

3. In a recent poll of random sample (10 percent) of selected leaders 29 percent responded to a questionnaire. On question of financial savings, 42

percent answered that they were able to come to U. C. because of USCA. But 89 percent indicated that they were able to remain at Cal. This is weighted in our favor because these people were leaders but it is evidence that a substantial number of Cal students received their university education because of USCA. Individual statement from innumerable alumni corroborate this. 4. Present rates at university dormitories are $380 to $435 per semester room and board. Those at USCA $204 to $236 plus workshifts. This is approximate difference of $40 per month. Using 690 roomers and boarders only (we have about 220 boarders only) this represents a saving of $27,600 per month or $220,800 per year (the academic year is 8 months long). This dramatic saving is made possible by the workshift program, but not entirely, for low administrative costs and operational savings are also involved. Also it doesn't really matter how the savings are made for these kids; the real fact is that they are made. Of course one cannot just multiply our present yearly savings by 25 years we didn't always have this many members and the spread has not always been this great. Conservatively we can estimate one-fourth of this figure and still have a cumulative savings of $1,375,000, while a 50 percent estimate would be $2,750,000.

5. Present financial condition-total assets $516,224. Total liabilities $132,991. Member equity $383,232. Percent of equity to total assets 74 percent.

MR. HARRY L. KINGMAN,

The Coronet, Washington, D. C.

COLLEGE PARK, Md., July 3, 1958.

DEAR HARRY: Had it not been for the University of California Student Cooperative Association I sincerely doubt that I would have been able to go through college. I was an undergraduate and graduate student at Berkeley during the depression years 1933 to 1940. No financial help was available from home, and few jobs were available during the summers or during the school year. At Barrington Hall on Dwight Avenue I paid $4 per month for my share of a double room with private bath and $14 per month for 21 meals per week. We were able to keep the cost of room and board low by doing all of our own work. The only paid employees were a cook and a buyer-manager. Economy in living was the real basis but certainly not the only virtue of the student cooperative. It was a real experience in democratic living. We worked together in preparing meals and on the cleanup crews after meals and discussed domestic and world issues in the lobby. Meanwhile the operation of the association was carried out by elected officers and directors.

I believe that the Student Cooperative Association has proved itself financially responsible and economically effective during the past quarter century. It has provided more housing service per dollar of investment than any other university-related organization. Certainly much would be gained by making Federal loans directly available to student cooperatives of the Berkeley type. Sincerely yours, DUDLEY DILLARD,

Head, Economics Department, University of Maryland. Mr. RAINS. Thank you very much, Mr. Hagen, for your testimony. Our next witness is our colleague, Mr. Thomas B. Curtis of Missouri. Come around, Mr. Curtis.

Mr. CURTIS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. RAINS. We are very glad to have you.

Mr. CURTIS. Thank you.

STATEMENT OF HON. THOMAS B. CURTIS, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF MISSOURI

Mr. CURTIS. I appreciate the opportunity to testify on a different subject than that which has preceded. I want to discuss the new section 229 of the Housing Act, which has been included in the Senate bill. It has to do with facilities for the aged. I want to state one