notice that we provided is proof enough to me that GAO can get a fast job done.

Gentlemen, I want to tell you that I appreciate your vigorous effort to come up with the information that we've asked you for today. I've had an opportunity to go over your statements and these clearly lay out the lack of past support for major systems acquisition support within GSA A-109, and the difficulty that GSA has had in other

areas.

I was particularly interested in reading that back in 1967 you found out that 15 out of 28 Federal buildings reviewed were flooding, leaking, or sinking. In the interest of time, I would appreciate it if you would allow us to insert your statement into the record in full at the conclusion of your testimony, so that we might go directly to the questions.

Mr. STOLAROW. That is fine, Senator.

Senator CHILES. Mr. Stolarow, since A-109, a major systems acquisition directive was issued over 2 years ago, General Services has done very little to implement or obey that directive. Is that correct?

TESTIMONY OF JERRY H. STOLAROW, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, GENERAL ACCOUNTING OFFICE, PROCUREMENT AND SYSTEMS ACQUISITION DIVISION; AND JOSEPH P. NORMILE, ASSOCIATE DIRECTOR, LOGISTICS AND COMMUNICATIONS DIVISION

Mr. STOLAROW. That's correct.

Senator CHILES. What have been issued as general directives are in compliance with GSA's current procedures, but not with the thrust of A-109; is that correct?

Mr. STOLAROW. That's correct.

Senator CHILES. At first the General Services Administration claimed in 1967 that the order didn't even apply to them? Mr. STOLAROW. That's right.

Senator CHILES. Then as a result of a consultant's report and consultation with the Office of Management and Budget, GSA established an Office of Systems Acquisition; is that right?

Mr. STOLAROW. That's correct.

Senator CHILES. The office created a draft plan for implementing the order, which in your view I understand was in accordance with the provisions of the Order A-109?

Mr. STOLAROw. We believed it was, yes, sir.

Senator CHILES. Then in June or July of last year that office was abolished and the personnel were reassigned?

Mr. STOLAROW. Correct.

Senator CHILES. And the current GSA order on A-109 is not in accord with the order; is that correct?

Mr. STOLAROW. In our opinion, it is not.

Senator CHILES. What about the recent Public Building Service Order; is that in accord?

Mr. STOLAROW. No, sir.

Senator CHILES. What about the automatic data processing order? Mr. STOLAROw. We don't believe that is in accord with A-109 either, sir.

Senator CHILES. And GSA and the Office of Management and Budget are not working together on this?

Mr. STOLAROW. Up until very recently we felt that they had not been attempting to resolve these differences. We understand that just within the last few days, or the last week or so, there has been some movement toward trying to resolve these discrepancies.

Senator CHILES. Well, would it be fair enough to say that 2 years short several days, the last several days, after A-109 was issued, we are still pretty much on square one as far as General Services Administration is concerned?

Mr. STOLAROW. In my opinion, they have not changed their procedures for acquiring Federal buildings in accordance with the concepts that are outlined in the Procurement Commission report and in A-109.

Senator CHILES. That's a very important answer and I think sometimes we tend to use a number like A-109 as if everyone understands it. Basically, that order would require them to go through a discipline in acquiring a Federal building and they have not been going through that discipline; is that correct?

Mr. STOLAROW. That's correct.

Senator CHILES. I thank you all very much for your appearance here today and your testimony.

Senator NUNN. May I ask one question, Mr. Chairman?

Senator CHILES. Yes.

Senator NUNN. Whose responsibility is it in the executive branch of the Government to see that A-109 is properly implemented? Mr. STOLAROW. The Office of Federal Procurement Policy, which is part of the Office of Management and Budget.

Senator NUNN. That's the final responsibility there?

Mr. STOLAROW. I believe so, yes, sir.

Senator NUNN. And each agency has the responsibility of complying with it individually; is that right?

Mr. STOLAROW. That's correct.

[The prepared statements of Messrs. Stalorow and Normile follows:]

to appear at the se hearings and will comment, as you requested, on General Services Administration's (GSA) progress in implementing OMB Circular A-109, as well as certain other matters relating to the management of public buildings.

First, however, I would like to make a few background comments. As you are well aware, the GAO fully supports the major acquisition recommendations of the Commission on Government Procurement and the intent of OMB Circular A-109. We have been monitoring the progress of the the Executive Branch implementation of the Commission's recommendations and have issued six progress reports on

actions

We have also issued a report on mission budgeting, which is closely related to the A-109 concept, and reports on three Department of Defense weapon system programs in which we

compared their acquisition with the Commission's recommended acquisition process.

Our ongoing work in this area includes another review of Executive Branch actions on the Commission's recommendations and a review of A-109 implementation progress by the Department of Defense and four civil agencies--the National Aeronautics and Space Administration, the Department of Transportation, the Department of Energy, and the General Services Administration. We began our review at GSA near the end of May. Our tentatative conclusions are:

--GSA's plans for implementing A-109 call for no substantive changes in its current acquisition process which does not include some key elements of the acquisition process recommended by the Commission and included in A-109 by the Office of Federal Procurement Policy (OFPP).

--GSA and OF PP have differing opinions on A-109's application to public buildings, but have not been working to resolve these differences.

In our opinion, there are three key elements of A-109 --the determination of need in relation to an agency's

mission requirements,

41-487 O-79-5

--the examination of alternative solutions to meeting

that need, and

--the generation of the maximum degree of competition

possible under the circumstances.

Although there has been some question of the applicability of A-109 to the acquisition of Federal buildings, we think these three elements are clearly just as important in this area as they are in the acquisition of weapons systems.

GSA's determination that a need exists for a major acquisition in the Public Buildings Service area will normally result from (1) continuing surveys of Federal office space in individual communities (an activity required by statute), or (2) a Congressional resolution directing GSA to survey the Federal space needs of a given community. In addition, GSA becomes involved in the building acquisitions by other agencies at different points in the acquisition process. This involvement will be discussed in more detail later in this statement.

While determining whether a need for a major acquisition exists, GSA will identify and evaluate alternative means for satisfying the need. This will be accomplished through GSA's existing market survey procedures--where GSA officials hold informal meetings with State and local officials, local planning commissions, developers, professional societies, and other appropriate groups.

After review at GSA He ad quarters, a statement of the