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The CHAIRMAN. But the point is that you do not want the Government to have anything to do with such a program.

Mr. SHUMAN. We do not want a compulsory, Government compelled, check-off.

The CHAIRMAN. In my own thinking, as a lawyer, I do not think that you should have a compulsory program as you say is contemplated by this proposal. It should be voluntary and that is the reason this refund provision has been put in.

We have the Tobacco Associates organization in my State of North Carolina, and it is financed somewhat in this same way. It is a voluntary payment of so much per acre, and the farmers, if they want a refund, can request it and their money is refunded. In that way no one can attack the constitutionality of the program, because we have a provision for recovery.

As a farmer, I pay $1 a bale on this program, and if I have 10 bales, I pay in $10, and I can say that I want my money back, and, of course, I will get it.

I think this should be a voluntary program.

Mr. SHUMAN. Mr. Chairman, we do not consider it a voluntary program-we consider it a compulsory program. It is enforced by the Government, the checkoff is enforced by the Government, and I doubt very much if it could be determined whether it is constitutional without taking it to the courts, and, of course, if it is passed I am sure that it will be challenged, and, probably, there will be a long period of fighting in the courts, which will ensue.

The CHAIRMAN. Who do you think would take it up?

Mr. SHUMAN. I am sure that the producers will. I am sure that many producers will go together to challenge it.

The CHAIRMAN. Are you suggesting that the Farm Bureau under your direction, will challenge the constitutionality of it?

Mr. SHUMAN. We certainly would, if the farmers in our organization wanted us to do so.

The CHAIRMAN. How many farmers would have to want to do that before you would be willing to challenge it?

Mr. SHUMAN. It would be up the board of directors. I do not know. I am sure there is a valid basis where challenging the constitutionality of it should or would be made.

I doubt very much whether the first two pages of the bill, which is an attempt to establish the public value of it, has done so. I think that there is a very serious question as to whether this is in the public interest.

The CHAIRMAN. That is in the public interest?

Mr. SHUMAN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. This refund provision in here is supposed to eliminate any question about the constitutionality of the act. I think that the bill has that section in it for that purpose. I am glad you have pointed that out.

There are other things that we will have to clear up, but it is a voluntarv program. You know that it has a cotton board in it. You understand that?

Mr. SHUMAN. Yes, sir. This board

The CHAIRMAN. The Secretary will not actually administer this and spend the money as he wants but he will spend it as this board, composed of farmers, decides.

Mr. SHUMAN. That would depend-that would be up to the discretion of the Secretary. He would not be compelled, as I understand this bill, to name the cotton board the people nominated. He could name others than those nominated. He would not be compelled to approve the expenditure of the funds by any certain organization, even if it were recommended by the cotton board. He would not be compelled to approve. He has discretion.

The CHAIRMAN. Suppose that we amend the bill not to let the Secretary spend the money except in the manner directed by the cotton board, and that the board be selected from a group of farmers nominated by the farmers. Would that take care of that point?

Mr. SHUMAN. No, I do not think that it would, because it is still a Government controlled compulsory checkoff. However, the first draft of the bill that our folks saw had quite a few of those provisions in it, and then I noticed that when it was finally drafted, it was found necessary to put more authority in the hands of the Secretary. And I can understand that.

I do not think that it is possible to draft legislation which gives the power of the Government to tax producers and then turn that money over to a non-Government agency, a supervised planning agency. I think that is what the drafters recognized, and the very fact that they did so, illustrates the fact that it is a Government-enforced checkoff.

The CHAIRMAN. I do not think that I agree with you on that particular point. I doubt very much if we could pass a bill that would be constitutional if it were compulsory, and to avoid that situation, we arranged in here that all that the farmer has to do is to request a refund and he can get it, and that is it.

Mr. SHUMAN. Some people have the idea that this money would be channeled, as it was pointed out by the Cotton Producers Institute which is affiliated with the National Cotton Council, through those organizations. This might be true under this for a short time, but there is no assurance of this. There is no assurance whatsoever that the future Secretary of Agriculture could not change that to have some other agency do the spending.

The CHAIRMAN. Suppose that we put in the bill a provision that the Secretary could not spend a single dollar of the money unless the Cotton Board said so? Would that help to improve the bill?

Mr. SHUMAN. I do not think that it would improve it from our standpoint, because it is still a Government-controlled compulsory checkoff.

The CHAIRMAN. In other words-let us get it clear-there is no way to amend this bill so as to get your approval of it?

Mr. SHUMAN. That is correct.

The CHAIRMAN. And you would suggest striking the enacting clause and everything thereafter?

Mr. SHUMAN. There is no way to help a compulsory checkoff that we would support.

The CHAIRMAN. I am talking about the whole bill. Is there any way that you could support this bill, to amend it so that you would agree with it?

Mr. SHUMAN. I think that you could take and have just a resolution which expressed the good will of the Congress.

The CHAIRMAN. The good will of the Congress to do what?

Mr. SHUMAN. Promotion and research.

The CHAIRMAN. Like a love letter to the American Farm Bureau Federation?

Mr. SHUMAN. That is right. [Laughter.]

That is correct, Mr. Chairman. So, we do not believe that any legislation is necessarily desirable. We have a very good program. The CHAIRMAN. How can you say that? The manufacturers of synthetics are spending $200 million a year in competition with cotton, and here we are contributing a sum that is practically nothing. We had pages from 1 magazine presented here yesterday, expensive advertising-50-some-odd pages from 1 magazine advertising goods manufactured out of synthetic fibers. You will find that if you talk to those in the textile indutry, as I have talked to them, that they read those magazines, and that they cannot continue with the manufacture of cotton in competition with manmade fibers under the present circumstances.

You read in the papers about all of the textile mills making great profits, and you will find that they are making most of the profits out of synthetics.

We cannot let cotton, as a commodity, go by the board, but that is what is going to happen.

The farmers, you say, want it on a voluntary basis. I feel that this is a voluntary program that we can try to get into operation. Mr. SHUMAN. Mr. Chairman, I would like to suggest that there is variation in the success of voluntary programs, that we have voluntary promotion and research programs that get the participation of farmers on a basis as high as 60 to 90 percent of participation; it can be done. We have repeatedly offered to the National Cotton Council and to the CPI that we join with them in a concerted and continuous campaign to get a higher percentage of support. We have every reason to believe that if we had been permitted to work with the National Cotton Council and the other groups over a period of several years that we could have raised this participation in the CPI considerably and probably in the nature of 70 to 80 percent.

In my opinion, if this bill is enacted and the compulsory checkoff is enacted, the $1 a bale assessment will be used as the excuse by farmers and others in the cotton business to practically discontinue their participation in the cotton council's program.

The CHAIRMAN. That is problematical. That was discussed here yesterday.

Mr. SHUMAN. I am sure that it is a pretty good possibility, because if you are going to take, by a Government checkoff, $1 a bale away from the producer, you can be pretty sure that a lot of the folks will discontinue the other checkoff, and the net result will be that the cotton council and the CPI program will be delivered over to Government supervision, and we will have destroyed a very effective organization-the National Cotton Council.

I do not agree at all that the reason that the research being done and the advertising promotion that is being done is concentrated on

synthetics and not on cotton is because we have not gone the route of compulsory Government checkoff programs for promotion.

There is no Government checkoff program for promotion and research in synthetics. The major reason, in my opinion, that there has not been a corresponding amount of research and promotion and advertising by the cotton textile mills for cotton is that we have had a cotton program for a number of years which has, for all practical purposes, legislated against any desire or any incentive for the cotton tetxile industry to promote cotton.

The CHAIRMAN. Let me interrupt you, please, Mr. Shuman. I want to present someone whom I do not think you will object to.

I recognize the distinguished gentleman from Texas, Mr. George H. Mahon. It is an honor to have you and your lovely friend here, and we will be glad to recognize you to present your friend to the committee.

STATEMENT OF HON. GEORGE H. MAHON, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF TEXAS

Mr. MAHON. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

One reason why we want to keep cotton in business is that if we should go out of the cotton business, there would be no more "Maids of Cotton." Of course, there are also other urgent reasons.

I think that it is rather fitting that I, coming from the largest cottonproducing congressional district in the United States, should have this honor of presenting to you the "Maid of Cotton" for this year.

I am very honored and very pleased to present the daughter of an oldtime friend of mine, from west Texas, Nancy Bernard, the "Maid of Cotton" for this year, from Lubbock, Tex. [Applause.]

The CHAIRMAN. We are delighted to have you here. We hope that you have a wonderful experience in this assignment, in carrying out this honor which has been conferred upon you, and if you act as good as you look, you will make a grand success. I will tell you that. I am sure that every man on this panel, and Mr. Shuman, admires you very much. We are glad to have you here, and we will be glad to hear from you.

STATEMENT OF MISS NANCY BERNARD, "1966 MAID OF COTTON," LUBBOCK, TEX.

Miss BERNARD. As the representative of the National Cotton Council, it has been my distinct pleasure to get to see many sights which the ordinary schoolgirl never would have the opportunity to see, to have experiences that the ordinary schoolgirl-and I am from the University of Texas, by the way-would never get to do. It is fascinating. I take every opportunity to promote cotton all that I can, wearing cotton all of the time. I have a cotton outfit on today.

The CHAIRMAN. It is very pretty.

Miss BERNARD. And I wear it all of the time. I wear cotton in many of my clothes-even my pajamas are cotton. [Laughter.] But doing these style shows every day, with visits to the various cities of the United States, has been a very rare and valuable experience, and as

we go along we have humorous instances, too. I think last night was a typical example, when we were flying from Raleigh, N.C., on the plane on which there were some men from the Du Pont Co., and it was quite an experience. They came strolling down the aisle and started up a conversation with us. We had quite a talk. We were holding our own with them, smiling very sweetly, and, finally, another man walked up and said, "Are you not the 'Maid of Cotton," " I said, "Yes, sir." So, these people from Du Pont kept talking, they talked on and told me about my fabric, and I told them about theirs. And this went on. They were really giving me a bad time. I finally said, "Sir, what is your shirt made out of?" And this gentleman said, "Well, cotton." [Laughter.] And I said, "I presume that you are wearing even more cotton than your shirt." [Laughter.] "Yes, ma'am." So, we called it "touché," and that was it.

So, as the Maid of Cotton, I have had many wonderful experiences. I have found out about many wonderful uses for cotton. It has been a great delight to talk about it all I can.

I think one of the biggest delights has been my getting to come. here to this committee today, because I have never been to Washington before, and I have never seen a committee in action before, and I can tell that this is a highlight of my trip.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

Mr. POAGE. I want to congratulate Mr. Mahon, the chairman of our Appropriations Committee, for having such a lovely constituent.

I want you to know that he has a group of Texans in the room. Some of them are on the committee. There is Mr. Purcell sitting over there, and Mr. De La Garza up here. These are members of our committee.

And then behind you at the witness table, there is Mr. DeVaney, the president of the Texas Farm Bureau Federation, and here are some of the local people from out on the plains of Texas. Ed Bush is around here some place. We have a whole bunch of Texans here. We are all just so very glad to have you here with us.

Miss BERNARD. Thank you.

The CHAIRMAN. May I interrupt this, to extend a Happy Birthday Greeting to you?

Miss BERNARD. Thank you.

Mr. MAHON. Mr. Chairman, this committee is so important to cotton, and this is such a wonderful moment in the life of this beautiful girl, that she ought to go away, I think, with a picture of some of you people in the background.

The CHAIRMAN. I do not think that anybody up here will run away. [Laughter.]

Mr. POAGE. I think that we should have a recess for that purpose at this point.

Mr. MAHON. First, let me present the tour managers who accompany Miss Bernard:

Miss Patty Povall of Lexington, Miss.

And Miss Rebecca Moore of Rolling Fork, Miss.

[Recess.]

The CHAIRMAN. The committee will be in order, please.
We appreciate permitting us to break in on your testimony.

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