It is most distressing, gentlemen. I preach and holler every day to help comfort my fellow farmers in their distress. I try to tell them that what they fear most can never happen because it is naturally physically impossible.

If you will permit me, since I am here as a dirt farmer, to make a few remarks about the farm-mortgage situation, I will. I began in the nineties when we were hit by the same conditions, only that the mortgages weren't so tall. There were the same wholesale foreclosures. There were many anguished cries from the dispossessed losing their homes. It involved my own family, who lost everything, and they felt that they had heard the crack of doom and were ready to lie down and give up.

Now, what came of it? I claim no power of prophetic vision as to what will happen tomorrow, no man can tell what will happen in the next minute, but we can review what happened in the past and it is very sure, I believe, to happen now again. It was esteemed a vast calamity at that time but in a few years it proved to have been a remarkable blessing. My father-in-law, if you will permit me to become personal, because it is a typical case entirely, lost everything he had; he couldn't pay me my wages, and they were only $15 a month, but he couldn't pay it, so I managed to get some horses at some auction sales and I went to farming. He was about my age, and after he got over the shock, he got back on the farm and rented some land. You understand, gentlemen, when the mortgagees get title to these lands, they find them worthless entirely without the people on the lands. And all that happened. To make it very short, gentlemen, what happened was that Brown lost his farm and Jones lost his farm and Jones got Brown's farm and Brown got Jones' farm [laughter], and the total result was that my father-in-law became well off for the first time in all of his life. He lost his mortgage. [Laughter.]

Don't misunderstand me. It was no joke at that time, and it is no joke now. I often cry about it. I don't believe any of all this stuff is going to happen. It can't happen. As I say, they can't import a new population in South Dakota that will farm these lands under present conditions. The mortgagee can't get his taxes out of them except from the man who knows how.

I looked over the country as I came over to Washington and I thought, "What would I have to do if I should have to move over here." [Laughter.] I would rather live in South Dakota where I know how to farm. I promise you, gentlemen, you move a man out to South Dakota and have him farm beside of me and I will make a monkey out of him in one season and he will not try to do so.

On the mortgage situation, gentlemen, some of the tall mortgages will become scraps of paper. It is unavoidable. I am sorry for the mortgagee, but why in the Sam Hill the farmer is afraid of losing it beats me. That is beyond my comprehension. Why, he should be glad to lose it. I tell you, gentlemen, I am not joking or trying to be humorous, but I try to comfort my fellow farmers. They are all good people that are involved in a situation not of their own making except in part that we recklessly spent what we didn't have, which is the real trouble, the unpayable debts between nations and between individuals.

I can speak independently. I am not a mortgagee and never expect to be, because I know if you want to make an enemy, get a mortgage

on his property and you will have a good foundation for it. So I don't want anything like that. I think I have said enough, gentlemen. [Laughter] But I do hope that we will not succumb to an orgy of price-fixing. I don't wish to speak disrespectfully, but that is economic quackery. I had to learn the language after I got here. It would make it very much worse, I know. The thing is to maintain our courage and manhood and pay our bills, especially the small bills. I am not talking about the mortgages, that is out of the question. I tell you that the mortgagee is more to blame than the debtor. He is supposed to exercise greater perspicacity in lending and he hasn't done so. He has been more foolish than the debtor.

Senator THOMAS of Oklahoma. Are you advising your farm friends to let the mortgage be foreclosed?

Mr. JENSEN. I am.

Senator THOMAS of Oklahoma. You think that is the proper remedy?

Mr. JENSEN. Yes, sir, it is. It cannot help, gentlemen-excuse me, Senator.

Senator THOMAS of Oklahoma. What do you raise on your farm? Mr. JENSEN. I raise mostly wheat.

Senator THOMAS of Oklahoma. What do you get for wheat on the farm?

Mr. JENSEN. Right now?

Senator THOMAS of Oklahoma. Yes.

Mr. JENSEN. The last time I heard it was 35 cents.

Senator THOMAS of Oklahoma. Is that cost of production?

Mr. JENSEN. There are so many factors involved. If you have always a good crop, Senator, it seems now we have to put our financial house in order. I could live on it.

Senator THOMAS of Oklahoma. Pay your taxes and educate your children and wear respectable clothes?

Mr. JENSEN. You know automobiles take the major portion of our income, and that may have to suffer. I hope not, because it is a splendid thing to have, but we must live first.

Senator THOMAS of Oklahoma. Your policy would be first to have all the farmers quit paying taxes and interest?

Mr. JENSEN. Oh, no.

Senator THOMAS of Oklahoma. Quit paying interest?
Mr. JENSEN. No.

Senator THOMAS of Oklahoma. And let the mortgage be foreclosed?

Mr. JENSEN. That is when they can't do it and the mortgagee insists on being unreasonable and will not face the realities. If he then won't do that, why, then I can't see any other way but that the law takes its course. The law will protect the debtor, it is in his favor in every case.

Senator THOMAS of Oklahoma. The farmer that has been foreclosed can go to some other farm and start at the bottom again? Mr. JENSEN arose.

Senator THOMAS of Oklahoma. And some way get one

mules

or two

Mr. JENSEN (interposing). You can't farm that way. Senator THOMAS of Oklahoma. Or a couple of oxen and a plow and start in again? Is that your remedy for the farmer?

166630-33- -19

Mr. JENSEN. No; not out our way; we can't farm that way. Most farmers have personal property.

Senator THOMAS of Oklahoma. Isn't that mortgaged?

Mr. JENSEN. In some instances. The mortgagee isn't anxious to get it, because he can't sell it for anything.

Senator THOMAS of Oklahoma. As soon as it is of any value, they will come out and take it?

Mr. JENSEN. No. If there is the slightest chance that this man has an earning power, he don't want it.

Senator THOMAS of Oklahoma. Are you in the Holiday Association? Mr. JENSEN. No, sir.

Senator THOMAS of Oklahoma. You don't believe in that?

Mr. JENSEN. No.

Senator SHIPSTEAD. Is it your theory that all of these farmers who have their places mortgaged and can't pay the mortgage will do the best thing by letting them go to foreclosure?

Mr. JENSEN. If they can't make terms with the mortgagee.

Senator SHIPSTEAD. Then they can't pay their taxes and the State takes the land for taxes?

Mr. JENSEN. It has the first claim.

Senator SHIPSTEAD. Then the State and the mortgagee would have the land?

Mr. JENSEN. Yes.

Senator SHIPSTEAD. The chances are they couldn't do anything with the land?

Mr. JENSEN. They couldn't.

Senator SHIPSTEAD. The chances are the farmer might buy the land for very little or nothing?

Mr. JENSEN. Yes.

Senator SHIPSTEAD. In that respect I think he would be better off. Mr. JENSEN. Yes; he would.

Senator SHIPSTEAD. Instead of trying to pay the interest and taxes? Mr. JENSEN. That is impossible.

Senator SHIPSTEAD. In the present conditions you think the farmer shouldn't worry and let the other fellow worry?

Mr. JENSEN. Yes, sir; just that, if he is unreasonable. I have always paid my bills, every penny, gentlemen. Don't get the idea I think little of paying my bills. That is the last thing a man can afford, but there is a situation when a mortgage is created at the top of the price level that must be adjusted on a plane of reality.

Senator SHIPSTEAD. You said something about the people you represent. Who do you represent?

Mr. JENSEN. I represent groups of independent cooperatives, but most of the farmers' elevators of South Dakota, of which I am president. This job, you understand, gentlemen, the salary connected with it is always in the red; it doesn't help my income.

The CHAIRMAN. It is impossible to hear what the witness is saying and I respectfully ask that the audience be quiet.

Mr. JENSEN. The last I said is just my own opinion. I am not representing anyone except in regard to our marketing system and I do hope you will not impair the grain marketing system as I know it. Also, as far as I know, it is highly developed on a very economic basis in the terminals but I know less about that. I am prepared to

answer any question about the marketing of grain. I think I know as much about it as the next man.

Senator FRAZIER. What is the price of oats?

Mr. JENSEN. There is no price if you have to ship.

Senator FRAZIER. It couldn't get much worse, could it, even if this bill passed?

Mr. JENSEN. No.

Senator FRAZIER. The price of wheat couldn't get very much worse? It has been down to 30 cents?

Mr. JENSEN. Yes. Let me call to your attention, gentlemen, if you will permit me to do it, a curious situation about the wheat market. For example, I haven't seen the market quotations in the last few days but you will find the price at Minneapolis on contract grades is 2 to 3 cents higher than Liverpool. If you add the cost of freight and handling from Minneapolis to Liverpool, 214 cents, that would make the Minneapolis market 24 cents higher than the Liverpool market. You can see the terrible situation in regard to exports. Senator FRAZIER. And yet some of the foreign countries, Italy and Germany and France, are paying a dollar bonus for their wheat. Mr. JENSEN. That is a bonus.

Senator FRAZIER. Don't you think their farmers are more prosperous than we are here?

Mr. JENSEN. I do not propose to become involved in world politics, but I am an omnivorous reader, and the reason France does that is for war purposes. She wants to raise her own stuff.

Senator FRAZIER. We are spending more for war purposes than any nation on earth.

Mr. JENSEN. Will you permit me to read a program adopted by our board of directors, a couple of sections?

While we question the soundness of the principle of our Federal Government loaning tax funds to any business institution, we insist that if such loans are made that there be no discrimination or discrimination on account of the form of organization or membership affiliation.

It is claimed that there has been discrimination, a policy of wanting to bludgeon us into something that we don't want. We have found it hard to make a place for ourselves in the terminal field and the primary market and we don't want it disturbed.

To demand that reciprocal trade and tariff arrangements be made with those countries from whom we derive our necessary imports

The argument that went on, gentlemen, was that there could be no point in swapping coal with Newcastle or trading wheat with Canada. It seems to me that it would be the last degree of idiocy. to the end that tariff be used to and aid in disposition of our surplus agricultural products; providing that such plans make no increase in Federal employees; no increase in taxes or use of public funds derived from taxation and no governmental legislation controlling agricultural production. We favor tariff protection for all agricultural products; adjustment of the so-called "war debts" in return for export trade concessions on agricultural products and the elimination of any and all unnecessary trade restrictions tending to curtail or prevent the free and natural movement of agricultural products in all markets.

To secure a prompt reduction in local, State, and national expenditures— Gentlemen, you have heard this until you are blind and I won't read the rest. I thank you very much.

Senator BULOW. Is there anything you see that Congress can do to relieve the farmer?

Mr. JENSEN. There is not, in my opinion.

Senator BULOW. You want to be left alone?

Mr. JENSEN. I want to be left alone.

The CHAIRMAN. If you are through with your testimony, we will call another witness.

Mr. JENSEN. Yes; thank you.

The CHAIRMAN. I have a request here from Senator McKellar and also from the gentleman himself for Mr. Corn to appear here for a few minutes.

Mr. Corn.

STATEMENT OF C. H. CORN, REPRESENTING SOUTHEASTERN MILLERS ASSOCIATION, PIEDMONT MILLERS ASSOCIATION, SOUTHERN ILLINOIS MILLERS ASSOCIATION, FRANKLIN, TENN.

Mr. CORN. My name is C. H. Corn. I am from Franklin, Tenn. I am here representing some of the wheat millers' associations, Southeastern Millers Association, Piedmont Millers Association, Southern Illinois Millers Association. Gentlemen, there are quite a number of these mills that belong to the Federal. We have no complaint to put in about the federation, in fact, we are for it. We are members of the Federal ourselves.

In order to get some of these points in the milling industry before you, I will say that there is nothing that will help the miller any more than the raise on wheat and cotton. Cotton is the greatest barometer of good times that the southern miller has ever had since I have been in the mill business, which embraces about 40 years. I was raised on the farm, stayed on the farm until I was 22 years old. I know all about the farmer's ills and his ups and downs. He is in a deplorable condition, gentlemen, but he is not by himself by any means.

I want to call your attention to the ills of the milling industry. The reason it hasn't come before you before this, the mills have got no politicians and it takes them to come up here and raise the house. In 1920 we had 7,000 flour mills in operation. In 1929 we had 4,000 mills in operation. In 1932 we had 2,400 mills in operation. You will see that almost two-thirds of the mills have died by suffocation or some other worse cause. So far as the mills are concerned, they have kept their grievances and their problems to themselves and worked that much harder. There has been quite a good deal said here about the enormous profit that the miller must get. Now, for your information, the freight rate as I have got the figures-I went to the Interstate Commerce Commission to get them-from Kansas City to Chicago in 1910 was 12 cents. In 1933 it was 231⁄2 cents. Senator NORRIS. Per hundred?

Mr. CORN. Yes.

Senator NORRIS. That is on flour? Mr. CORN. That is wheat. Flour is carried at the same rate. From Chicago to Baltimore in 1910 it was 17 cents, and in 1933 it was 35 cents. From Kansas City to Baltimore in 1910 it was 25 cents; in 1933 it was 501⁄2 cents. So you see clearly that of this enormous profit that the mills are supposed to be getting, 50 cents of each barrel of flour is going to the railroads. The problem is that I don't see how the railroads can do any better than they are doing