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discernible. This illustration may help show why I would like to have us in Congress know better, and in better focus and perspective, who these lobbyists are and what they are doing, and perhaps greatly broaden the definition of what constitutes a lobbyist. If you are an ex-chairman of one of our Federal bodies here in Washington and you start collecting big feees from American industry, it seems to me you can be persuaded to be influential in your effect not only on the Congress but on the administrative bodies that the Congress has set up.

My last subject, Mr. Chairman, is your item of public relations of Congress. Now, this question is made doubly acute by the Communist propaganda. The Communist propaganda, as an essential part of its dogma and doctrine, contains the aim of destroying the confidence of our people and all peoples throughout the world in democratic processes and in the operations of our Congress.

Yes, our Congress is a major target and butt of Communist propaganda in every country of the world, including the United States.

The American Communist Party has achieved major success in infiltrating into the media of communications in this country. Some of our great magazines have had problems, as I know, from their owners and editors, through Communist infiltration on their staffs. We know this infiltration has happened in Hollywood, and we see its results in some of the Broadway plays.

A major aim of this infiltration and of this propaganda of the Communist Party is to destroy public confidence in the operations of Congress.

Now, Mr. Chairman, I do not suggest that I know what to do about this. I don't claim I know how to handle the public relations of Congress. This is a very delicate and difficult subject. Assuredly, we don't want to hire a lot of publicity men to publicize Congress, and this would be unsuitable and not in the American tradition.

How to handle television and radio in conjunction with the operations of Congress I have not figured out. But I do know that a company of which I am a partial owner, the Encyclopaedia Britannica Films, Inc., in conjunction with the University of Chicago, has been employed by the Federal Reserve Board to make a picture showing the operations of the Board, and this film is going to be shown in schools throughout the country.

The Atomic Energy Commission has also employed that company to make a motion picture that will be shown in schools throughout this country.

I wish that Congress had a good motion picture, an educational picture, made under the direction of one of our great universities and laid out by distinguished political scientists-a picture that would show how Congress operates, a picture that could be shown throughout the schools of this country.

I cite this merely as an example to show what I think is appropriate, as against what I feel is inappropriate, wholly inappropriate public relations in the orthodox tradition of Broadway and Hollywood publicity men.

I suggest-and this as the only concrete approach I have thought of-that the subject of the public relations of Congress be turned over to the Joint Library Committee, of which I am now a member, although I only attended one meeting, but it seems to me this is the

kind of committee-and the Library of Congress the kind of institution-which could most suitably devote itself to a study of this whole problem of the so-called public relations of the United States Congress, at an educational level rather than at a publicity level. I give your committee this idea for whatever value or interest it may have to you.

Mr. Chairman, I have presented to your committee this morning a miscellaneous assortment of ideas which, at least, have the value of being concrete and specific. You have been very courteous as always. I would not have appeared before you if I had not thought that this subject on which you are embarking today is one of the most important subjects, not only for this Congress, but for every Congress, and if I had not had a long background of interest in it.

The CHAIRMAN. As Senator Moody said, while we may not agree with you completely on every point that you have discussed, still you have given us a number of ideas here that certainly merit consideration. Some of them are within the common knowledge of all of us to justify the position that you have taken. As chairman of the committee, and I know all the members of the committee, personally appreciate your coming in here in this frank way, dealing with problems that may be small compared to some of the greater ones, but several small ones make a big one and I am very grateful to you for your presentation, Senator.

Senator BENTON. Mr. Chairman, you encouraged me when I was a member of your committee and I was grateful to you then. I am again grateful to you for your encouragement this morning.

Senator MONRONEY. I would like to repeat what the chairman said. We do appreciate your ideas.

Senator BENTON. Thank you. I appreciate your comment the more because you are an expert in this field.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Senator.

The committee will stand in recess until 2: 15. I hope the members will agree with me that we should try to keep up with our schedule if we can.

(Whereupon, at 12: 35 p. m., the committee adjourned, to reconvene at 2: 15 p. m. this same day.)

AFTERNOON SESSION

The CHAIRMAN. The committee will come to order.

We are very happy to have Congressman Holifield with us, who is on the Expenditures Committee of the House, and who I know is very much interested in this study that we are making. We do want the benefit of our counsel, Congressman, and the committee welcomes you. We will be glad to hear from you. Please proceed in your own way.

STATEMENT OF HON. CHET HOLIFIELD, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

Mr. HOLIFIELD. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and members of the committee. I deem it a privilege to be allowed to make a statement before you on the important work which your committee is undertaking.

The objective of these hearings, as I understand it, is to determine how the Legislative Reorganization Act of 1946 has worked out in practice, and to consider further proposals designed to increase efficiency in the legislative branch of the Government. From time to time numerous such proposals, as you know, have been made by Members in either House or by private citizens and civic groups interested in the improvement of the legislative processes and the strengthening of democratic government.

This is a very broad subject, but I shall confine my testimony for brevity's sake to three points.

First, I am the sponsor in the House of House Concurrent Resolution 60, proposing the establishment of a Joint Select Committee on the Organization of Congress. An identical resolution, Senate Concurrent Resolution 3, is sponsored in the Senate by Senator Humphrey. The joint committee proposed in my resolution would examine in a systematic and comprehensive way the subject matter of this hearing. Second, I am the chairman of the Subcommittee on Executive and Legislative Reorganization, the House counterpart of your Senate Subcommittee on Reorganization.

The CHAIRMAN. Congressman, will you make or submit for the record a copy of the bill that you refer to in your resolution? Mr. HOLIFIELD. I will be glad to.

The CHAIRMAN. Because, as we make reference to them, I want to have them printed right in the record.

Mr. HOLIFIELD. Fine. Thank you, sir.
(The document referred to is as follows:)

[H. Con. Res. 60, 82d Cong., 1st sess.]

CONCURRENT RESOLUTION

Resolved by the House of Representatives (the Senate concurring), That there is hereby established a Joint Select Committee on the Organization of Congress, to be composed of fourteen members, as follows: Seven Members who are members of the Committee on Expenditures in the Executive Departments of the Senate, four from the majority party and three from the minority party, to be chosen by such committee; and seven Members who are members of the Committee on Expenditures in the Executive Departments of the House of Representatives, four from the majority party and three from the minority party, to be chosen by such committee.

SEC. 2. The joint committee shall make continuing studies of the organization and operation of the Congress of the United States and shall recommend improvements in such organization and operation with a view toward strengthening the Congress, simplifying its operations, improving its relationships with other branches of the Unted States Government, and enabling it better to meet its responsibilities under the Constitution. These studies shall include, but shall not be limited to, the operation of the Legislative Reorganization Act of 1946 ; the organization and operation of each House of the Congress; the relationship between the two Houses, the relationships between the Congress and other branches of the Government; the employment and remuneration of officers and employees of the respective Houses and officers and employees of the committees and Members of Congress; the structure of, and the relationships between the various standing, special, and select committees of the Congress; and the rules, parliamentary procedure, and practices of each House.

SEC. 3. All bills, resolutions, and other matters in the Senate or the House of Representatives relating primarily to changes in the organization or operation of the Congress shall be referred to the joint committee: Provided, That the existing jurisdiction of the Committees on Expenditures in Executive Departments of the Senate and of the House of Representatives, the Committee on Rules and Administration of the Senate, the Committee on Rules, and the Committee on House Administration of the House of Representatives shall remain unimpaired.

SEC. 4. The members of the joint committee who are Members of the Senate shall report to the Senate and the members of the joint committee who are Members of the House of Representatives shall report to the House, not later than July 31, 1952, by bill or otherwise, their recommendations with respect to matters within the jurisdiction of their respective Houses which are (a) referred to the joint committee or (b) otherwise within the jurisdiction of the joint committee.

SEC. 5. Vacancies in the membership of the joint committee shall not affect the power of the remaining members to execute the functions of the joint committee and shall be filled in the same manner as in the case of the original selection. The joint committee shall select a chairman and a vice chairman from among its members.

SEO. 6. The joint committee, or any duly authorized subcommittee thereof, is authorized to hold such hearings, to sit and act at such places and times, to require, by subpena or otherwise, the attendance of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents, to administer such oaths, to take such testimony, to procure such printing and binding, and to make such expenditures as it deems advisable. The cost of stenographic services to report such hearings shall not be in excess of 25 cents per hundred words.

SEC. 7. The joint committee is empowered to appoint and fix the compensation of such experts, consultants, technicians, and clerical and stenographic assistants as it deems necessary and advisable.

Mr. HOLIFIELD. As you well know, Mr. Chairman, the Legislative Reorganization Act of 1946 gave to the Committee on Expenditures in each House the duty, among other things, of "evaluating the effectiveness of laws enacted to reorganize the legislative and executive branches of the Government." Accordingly, in connection with my committee and subcommittee duties, I have a continuing interest in the matter of legislative reorganization.

Third, as a Member of Congress since 1943, I am concerned about legislative structures and devices which hamper the proper performance of legislative duties and serve to weaken democratic government. In this connection, I shall direct my remarks briefly to three important problems which require attention, namely, limiting the role of the House Rules Committee in the legislative process; liberalizing the discharge rule for getting bills out of committee; and establishing a code of fair conduct for congressional committees. Commenting first on the proposal embodied in House Concurrent Resolution 60: The investigations and hearings that led to the Legislative Reorganization Act of 1946 were carried on by a special Joint Committee on the Organization of Congress, the La Follette-Monroney committee. Dr. George B. Galloway, of the Legislative Reference Service, who is assisting you in the conduct of these hearings, performed very outstanding staff work in connection with the basic reorganization statute.

Some months ago a proposal was made to reestablish a joint committee of the same order to review the status of legislative reorganization. In consultation with Senator Humphrey and his staff, I suggested that this joint committee be drawn from the membership of the Expenditures Committees in both Houses, in view of the jurisdiction conferred upon them by the 1946 act. It was my thought that, while the spirit of the act favored joint and cooperative committee endeavors to avoid overlapping and duplication, it was also intended that such endeavors, joint or separate, be carried on by permanent standing committees newly defined in the act, and, of course, by their appropriate subcommittees, rather than by special committees. The

resolution was redrafted in line with my suggestion, and entered by Senator Humphrey and myself in the respective bodies.

Since legislative reorganization concerns both Houses of the Congress, it lends itself particularly well to a joint committee undertaking. Presumably, this joint undertaking could have been effected by agreement between the House and Senate Committees on Expenditures without the necessity of a formal resolution. My purpose in sponsoring House Concurrent Resolution 60 was to call attention to the need and desirability of evaluating our experience under the Legislative Reorganization Act of 1946.

When I first learned that the Senate committee contemplated hearings on legislative reorganization and had borrowed Dr. Galloway from the Legislative Reference Service to assist in this field, I discussed with Senators and the staff of your committee the possibility of joint hearings and also kept my own subcommittee members informed of preliminary steps that you were taking to prepare for these hearings.

On February 20, 1951, Senator O'Conor, chairman of the Subcommittee on Reorganization, sent me the following letter:

Hon. CHET HOLIFIELD,

House of Representatives, Washington, D. C.

DEAR MR. HOLIFIELD: The Chief Clerk of the Senate Committee on Expenditures in the Executive Departments has advised me relative to the action taken by your subcommittee in relation to hearings on proposed changes in the Legislative Reorganization Act of 1946, and I am writing to assure you that this subcommittee will be glad to cooperate with you in holding joint hearings on proposed amendments to the act.

As you know, Senators Monroney and Smith of Maine have been designated as a special subcommittee to undertake preliminary studies of the proposed changes, and Dr. George B. Galloway of the Legislative Reference Service, Library of Congress, has been assigned to the subcommittee on a reimbursable basis through June 30, 1951, to assist in the preparation of appropriate legislation incorporating such amendments for consideration at the proposed joint hearings before the two full subcommittees.

I am suggesting to Senator Monroney that he contact you direct so that we can cooperate with you and your subcommittee in every way. I agree with your view that since these amendments will necessarily affect both the House and the Senate, it will be advantageous to work closely together in this matter in the early stages, so that the hearings may be as productive as possible.

Attached is a copy of a letter I have sent to the chairman of the Senate Committee and to other Senators who have expressed an interest in the Legislative Reorganization Act, for your information.

With kind regards and best wishes, I am
Sincerely yours,

HERBERT R. O'CONOR,

Chairman, Subcommittee on Reorganization.

Copies to Senator Mike Monroney, Senator Margaret Chase Smith.

Subsequently, it developed that both Senator Monroney and Senator O'Conor, because of other committee duties, were unable to schedule the hearings earlier contemplated and accordingly the full committee took over the assignment. I understand that these hearings, conducted by the Senate Committee on Expenditures, are in the nature of a preliminary survey of the subject matter particularly to determine whether further legislation on congressional reorganization should be drafted. If the committee, in its wisdom, determines that further hearings are in order or that additional legislation is appropriate, I will be very glad to follow through and cooperate in every way possible

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