(8) If the witness so requests, no photographs, moving pictures, television or radio broadcasts of the proceeding shall be permitted while the witness is testifying.

(9) No reports shall be made to the Senate or released to the public without unanimous approval of the subcommittee, or by a majority vote of the full committee.

The CHAIRMAN. You may proceed.

Senator FERGUSON. Mr. Chairman, one of the reasons why it is very difficult to lay down a code of rules is, as I see it, that you have no appellate jurisdiction to review what has been done by the committee. The committee must remain in control of the hearings.

It is not like a court where you take matters down, and one side can immediately appeal by going to the Supreme Court for a writ or other process to stop the action, because it is not in the regular form. There is no procedure here whereby you could go to the Senate floor, as I would view it, and get a ruling immediately on whether a question could be asked or not be asked in committee.

Members of these committees are Senators from States having equal importance in the light of the whole group of federated States, and they have a right, if they think that a matter should be exposed or brought out, to be very insistent upon bringing that out. You sit as independent Senators, not as judges subject to review by a higher tribunal, as we do in court. That is why I don't think that you can pass a statute and make it rigid in the conduct of the hearings.

I think that if the chairman and members of any committee merely act as the Senators and gentlemen which they are, then you need not have strict rules of procedure.

Now, I do not say that for a committee to make some rules for their own guidance and conduct would not be a good thing, because I do think that is a good thing and we ought to do it. But to pass a statute that a hearing must be held in a certain way, I think, would not work as well as it would to allow the committee itself to adopt its own rules and to change them from time to time, even during a hearing.

I will be glad to answer any questions you may have. Also I would like to ask further that there be inserted as part of my remarks three wires and a letter showing reactions to the resolution that I introduced in relation to the veterans' affairs committee.

The CHAIRMAN. They may be inserted in the record, I would also like to ask you if you would not also insert in the record a copy of your resolutions, S. Res. 148 and S. Con. Res. 2.

my

Senator FERGUSON. Yes; I will have those inserted at the end of remarks.

The CHAIRMAN. Very well. They may be inserted here.

(The three telegrams and letter, S. Res. 148, and S. Con. Res. 2, are as follows:)

Senator HOMER FERGUSON,

Senate Office Building:

WASHINGTON, D. C., June 5, 1951.

Veterans of Foreign Wars urges establishment of standing Senate committee on veterans' affairs. Such committee will make a substantial contribution to the effective and efficient operation of Congress.

OMAR B. KETCHUM, Director VFW Legislative Service.

Hon. HOMER FERGUSON,

WASHINGTON, D. C., June 5, 1951.

Senate Office Building, Washington, D. C.:

Amvets (American Veterans of World War II) strongly favor establishment of Senate standing committee on veterans' affairs and therefore wholeheartedly support Senate Resolution 148 for this purpose.

HAROLD RUSSELL, National Commander.

WASHINGTON, D. C., June 5, 1951.

Hon. HOMER FERGUSON,

United States Senate:

Disabled American veterans appreciate introduction by you and 35 other Senators of Senate Resolution 148 providing for establishment Senate Committee on Veterans' Affairs. Our organization wholeheartedly endorses this action. Veteran's affairs one of Nation's most important subjects yet Senate committee jurisdiction divided among several committees. DAV gratefully to those advocating establishment of Senate Veterans' Affairs Committee.

FRANCIS M. SULLIVAN,

National Legislative Director, Disabled American Veterans.

Hon. HOMER FERGUSON,

Washington, D. C.

THE AMERICAN LEGION, WASHINGTON HEADQUARTERS, Washington, D. C., June 5, 1951.

DEAR SENATOR FERGUSON: I understand that a hearing will be held tomorrow by the Senate Committee on Expenditures in the Executive Departments in connection with the principle of creating a Committee on Veterans' Affairs In the United States Senate.

As you know, you were good enough to introduce Senate Resolution No. 148 for yourself, and 35 other Senators, under date of May 29, 1951.

The American Legion is very glad indeed to endorse legislation which would provide for the establishment of a standing Committee on Veteran's Affairs in the United States Senate. We are grateful to you and your colleagues for sponsoring legislation having for its objective the setting up of such a committee. If you feel there is anything the American Legion can do to assist in the matter, please feel free to call upon us.

Thanking you for your courtesy, and with kindest personal regards, I am Sincerely yours,

MILES D. KENNEDY, Director.

[S. Res. 148, 82d Cong., 1st sess.]
RESOLUTION

Resolved, That commencing with the Eighty-third Congress, rule XXV of the Standing Rules of the Senate (relating to standing committees) is amended by

(1) striking out subparagraphs 10 through 13 in paragraph (h) of section 1;

(2) striking out subparagraphs 16 through 19 in paragraph (1) of section 1;

(3) inserting in section 1 after paragraph (o) the following new paragraph:

"(p) Committee on Veterans' Affairs, to consist of thirteen Senators, to which committee shall be referred all proposed legislation, messages, petitions, memorials, and other matters relating to the following subjects:

"1. Veterans' measures, generally.

"2. Pensions of all wars of the United States, general and special.

"3. Life insurance issued by the Government on account of service in the Armed Forces.

"4. Compensation of veterans.

"5. Vocational rehabilitation and education of veterans.

"6. Veterans' hospitals, medical care, and treatment of veterans. "7. Soldiers' and sailors' civil relief.

"8. Readjustment of servicemen to civil life.";

(4) striking out section 4 and inserting in lieu thereof the following: "(4) Each Senator shall serve on two standing committees and no more; except that eighteen Senators of the majority party, and six Senators of the minority party, who are members of the Committee on the District of Columbia, the Committee on Expenditures in the Executive Departments, or the Committee on Post Office and Civil Service, shall serve on three standing committees and no more. During any period in which the minority party has a total membership of fifteen Senators or less, such six Senators of such party who shall be members of three committees may be members of any three standing committees."

[S. Con. Res. 2, 82d Cong., 1st sess.]

CONCURRENT RESOLUTION

Resolved by the Senate (the House of Representatives concurring), That on and after January 3, 1952, section 133 of the Legislative Reorganization Act of 1946, as amended, is amended by adding at the end thereof the following new subsection:

"(g) (1) All bills and joint resolutions reported from committees of the Senate or the House of Representatives other than Appropriation Committees shall be accompanied by reports in writing, which shall be printed; and there shall be included in each such report or in an accompanying document an estimate from the department or other agency of the legislative, executive, or judicial branch of the Government primarily concerned with the expenditure of any funds required to meet the probable cost of carrying out the legislation proposed in such bill or resolution over the first five-year period of its operation or over the period of its operation if such legislation will be effective for less than five years.

"(2) Estimates received from departments or agencies under this subsection may be submitted by the committees to the Bureau of the Budget for review, and such reviews, when practicable, shall be included within the accompanying documents before said bills and joint resolutions are reported.

"(3) The Appropriations Committees of both Houses shall maintain compilations of all such estimates, and quarterly shall print those compilations (together with any comment of the Bureau of the Budget) in the form of anticipated legislative budgets for each of the ensuing five fiscal years for the information of the Congress."

The CHAIRMAN. I would like to have all these bills and resolutions put into the record as we go along, so that we can refer to them. Then when we undertake to review the record and study it, we will have all of the material right before us.

Senator FERGUSON. Thank you, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. I want personally to thank you for your statement and the number of topics you have covered. I know of your interest in this committee, and as you said you were the first chairman of our Subcommittee on Senate Investigations. Frankly I believe the time has come for Congress to review this act and make a study of it. This committee is charged with that responsibility under the 1946 act itself.

We are going to make these hearings thorough; we are not going to rush through them, with the hope that different views of not only Members of the Congress but others can be brought together, and out of these different expressions and opinions, and these different bills, now pending in Congress relating to various provisions of the act, or implementing them, that we can get out a major bill here embodying the best of these recommendations with the hope of getting it enacted.

Personally, the chairman wishes to thank you for your statement. Senator HOEY, do you have any questions?

Senator HOEY. No questions.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator O'Conor:

Senator O'CONOR. I would just like to ask Senator Ferguson one or two questions.

Senator, you have devoted yourself to a discussion of several points that we had in mind. I would like to ask you a question with particular reference to the suggested creation of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs which I am pleased to join with you as cosponsor.

Senator FERGUSON. Yes?

Senator O'CONOR. Do you not feel that, by having such a committee devoted to the special consideration of all veterans' matters, while it may well bring in a pressure group, as you frankly admit, nevertheless it may eventually result in a decrease in legislation, because one committee to which all such proposals will go might very well see the need for the elimination of some measures giving preference to the more important ones? There will also be greater uniformity in the consideration of matters pertaining to veterans' affairs rather than having them considered by several other committees, so that it would make for uniformity? Do you not think so?

Senator FERGUSON. I think that is absolutely true, because the committee that has jurisdiction would see the entire picture of the veterans. Their staff would be familiar with all of the legislation. that had been passed in relation to the veterans. Sometimes a matter is taken care of by previous acts, if properly interpreted, rather than just the passing of a new bill. We split veterans' affairs up now into two committees.

Like any other lobby, we might say that pressure groups would go to such a committee. Let's take the Labor and Public Welfare Committee. Just because the people who are connected with labor and industry would lobby in that committee is no reason why we should abolish that committee and divide its work up into four or five committees.

I think that the charge that it will be used by pressure groups is not a sound one. I do appreciate what pressure groups do, and I even see value in them. Having been a judge on the bench, you might say that every lawyer who comes in for one side or the other is a special pleader. In fact, you know that he is getting so much a day for his pleading. The judge is able to find the facts because of special pleaders who will bring in all the facts on both sides. You don't anticipate in a court that a lawyer is going to present the other man's case, and neither do you expect a group coming in wanting certain legislation to present arguments that may be against them. But they are always useful in bringing out the full facts of any case.

I think that is what we understand by special pleaders and special groups. It is up to a man, whether he be on the bench or on a committee, or in the Senate, to distinguish what the truth is and pass upon that truth.

Senator O'CONOR. Thank you, Senator Ferguson.

Senator FERGUSON. That is how I feel about the special groups. I think they serve a purpose. But, of course, we ought to know that they are special groups.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Monroney?

Senator MONRONEY. No questions.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, sir.

Senator FERGUSON. I appreciate the privilege of appearing before

you.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator O'Mahoney, please.

Senator, the committee is very happy to have you here this morning and to have your counsel on this undertaking. You may proceed in your own way, Senator.

STATEMENT OF HON. JOSEPH C. O'MAHONEY, A UNITED STATES SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF WYOMING

Senator O'MAHONEY. Mr. Chairman, I am very happy indeed to have the opportunity to come here. I felt complimented when I received your letter, Mr. Chairman, asking me to discuss some phases of the work of the Joint Economic Committee.

But before I undertake to describe that work specifically, I should like to make some general reference to the economic and social conditions which have created the problem which your committee has undertaken to study.

I think it is one of the most valuable studies that Congress can carry on, because it deals with a fundamental problem of our time. You are seeking to find ways and means of reorganizing the Congress of the United States so that it may cope with the multiplying problems that are thrust upon the shoulders of members day after day, and which have been growing at such a rapid rate that we know it is impossible for members to devote time to all the measures and suggestions and the demands that are being made upon us. I think, however, that we are likely to overlook the cause of the condition in seeking to find a remedy.

Back in 1948 there was translated a book that was written by Voznovenski, Deputy Premier of the Soviet Government, in which he said in effect that the great need in the modern world is to bring about the collapse, politically and economically, of what he called the imperialist aggressor nations. He meant, of course, what we call the free nations. I have long been convinced that the Soviets have no intention whatsoever of launching a war against the United States, or against the free world, because they are so convinced that the free world is going to wreck itself economically.

Senator Ferguson has just made reference to the diagram on the front page of the Washington Post this morning as showing the comparison of national income and Government spending, by which was meant not only the spending of the Government of the United States, but the spending of the States and of local government communities. In the newspaper headlines, and for the most part in the newspaper editorials, we find a concentration of attention upon the spending of the Federal Government and little or no attention paid to the spending by State governments. But the fact of the matter is, as can be obtained by reference to the cold figures gathered by the census, that expenditures in the States of the United States have grown just as rapidly as expenditures by the Federal Government, and that the States have not had the obligation of carrying on national defense.