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Mr. HÉBERT. Well, have you given any consideration-this crops into my mind at the moment. Have you given any consideration to an extension of enlistments, initial enlistments?

Your present enlistment is what? Three years, isn't it?
Colonel RECTOR. Four.
Mr. HÉBERT. Four years?
Colonel RECTOR. Four.

Mr. HÉBERT. Has any attention been given to a longer enlistment?
Because, after all, you have to train these people, and you know they
go in there to get trained to go out and get more.
Colonel RECTOR. That is true. And it has been considered, sir.
I would like to refer this to Colonel McRae.

Colonel McRAE. There is a current exercise that would involve the extension, sir, of the enlistments in a number of the more critical skills. But this is only a temporary measure.

There is no intention at the moment to extend it beyond 4 years for all groups.

Mr. HÉBERT. You see, Colonel, the other day the Congress, in passing a bill relating to the academies, to fill out the vacancies, made it mandatory that anybody going to our academies have to serve 5 years. An effort was made on the floor to put it at 7 years, which found favor in many places.

Now I think the same logic should apply: that it costs us X number of dollars to educate an officer, and that he must remain in the service for 5 years.

The same should apply to the enlisted man, who is certainly receiving equal or comparable or relative training in his field, and which is costing the Government money to train him. And if he knows very well that he goes in to be trained. And which is right. And to capitalize on that training, economically, financially, after he leaves the service.

So I think it is something that the services should address themselves to, in this technical field.

The recruiting service always boasts—that is one of the come-ons they have. “We will train you. We will train you. Come in, we will train you; we will train you.”

Well, that man goes in, and rightly so, and serves the country and is in uniform. He is trained.

But I think some exploration should be given to an extension of tours in the technical services, where the Government is investing money to train technicians, as compared to training a man to carry a rifle.

Colonel Hill. Mr. Chairman, we are approaching this thing that you are speaking of in a slightly different manner.

We are now in the process of offering people additional technical training only if they do reenlist.

After they complete their first enlistment, they are not eligible for this training unless they reenlist.

Mr. HÉBERT. Do I understand you to mean by that that you do not recruit from the lowest level the civilian into the uniform, on the basis of training?

Colonel Hill. Yes, sir, we do, do just as you said.

to pay him.

But there is additional training which an individual becomes eligible for if he does reenlist the second time.

Mr. HÉBERT. Yes, but he doesn't want the additional training.
Colonel Hill. Yes, sir.

Mr. HÉBERT. He has enough training to go out and get that job, and as you say, at four or five times what the Government can afford

. So that money is lost. That investment in that man is lost.

Mr. Kirchin. But they may-we gave the President the emergency powers to extend the obligated service the other day. And at least I expect this emergency is going to continue for some time.

Secretary IMIRIE. Yes, sir. And that is what the colonel addressed himself to.

We are considering specifically extending skills we need, and so forth.

Mr HÉBERT. Under the recent legislation.
Secretary IMIRIE. Under the recent legislation.

But I understood the chairman was addressing himself to what are we going to do over the long run, notwithstanding.

Mr. HÉBERT. Over the long term. This is emergency.

Secretary IMIRIE. I am not aware of any such plans. But I admit it is out of my field.

Mr. HÉBERT. But it is something I think the services should give attention to.

Secretary IMIRIE. Yes, sir.

Mr. NORBLAD. What is your tour on these so-called hilltops that you face in upper Canada and in Alaska and the Aleutians?

Mr. MORRILL. Twelve months.

Mr. HÉBERT. We now get to the interesting part of the hearings, of the contracts.

Do you have those contracts! ?

Mr. COURTNEY. Mr. Sandweg is prepared to address himself to the research and development contracts, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. HÉBERT. Mr. Secretary, I presume your people are ready? Secretary I MIRIE. Yes, sir. Just call off the contracts you wish to discuss. I will name the witnesses.

Mr. HÉBERT. We will start off with Bryn Mawr. That is the most interesting.

Dr. HUTCHINSON. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, I am Dr. Charles Hutchinson.

Mr. HÉBERT. Sit down and be comfortable. We want you to be relaxed.

Dr. HUTCHINSON. I am Deputy Director of Life Sciences in the Air Force Office of Scientific Research.

I can thoroughly understand your interest in Bryn Mawr.

I am afraid that anything that I say is likely to prove a disappointment—anything that I am at least prepared to say.

I have another apology to make.

I am a psychologist. And anything that an intelligent human being can say in simple English, a psychologist can say in jargon that is not understandable even to another psychologist.

Mr. HÉBERT. We are accustomed to such jargon.

Mr. COURTNEY. Feel right at home, Doctor.
Mr. SANDWEG. So we can get it on the record, Doctor.

Air Force type contracts that were supplied to the committee were reviewed and several were picked out for further explanation. One that is under discussion now I might read it was let by the Air Research and Development Command. The number is DDP614-607. It reflects two contracts with Bryn Mawr College at Bryn Mawr, Pa. Combined total amount in excess of of $22,000. And the title of the contract and all the data we have on it is “Psychological Adjustment Factors in Self-Estimate of Body Space.” (The contract data not read is as follows:)

AIR RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT COMMAND

DDP-61-4-607Bryn Mawr College, Bryn Mawr, Pa. Psychological adjustment factors in self-estimate of body space.-

-$9, 020 Psychological adjustment factors in self-estimate of body space-------- 13, 340

Mr. SANDWEG. We are wondering, Doctor, just what does that mean?

Mr. COURTNEY. First of all, Bryn Mawr is a female college. Is that right?

Dr. HUTCHINSON. That is correct-
Mr. COURTNEY. “Self-Estimate of Body Space”.

Dr. HUTCHINSON. The graduate school is coeducational. They grant a Ph. D. in psychology, and in the graduate department. They do accept male students. Also

in this regard they have a cooperative arrangement with Haverford College, which is all male, and Swarthmore, which is co-ed, to exchange courses and to exchange research facilities.

Mr. HÉBERT. Not exchange students.

Dr. HUTCHINSON. They do. That is correct, they do exchange students where there is a particuarly strong course in one of the colleges.

The subject, as you heard it, is one which is rather easy to misunderstand, I am sure. The kind of a judgment that I would reach.

And I would like it understood that the kind of questions you have are the kind that we have, and that we don't pick these things out of the hat, but that we have a rather extensive selection process.

And I think-since I am the only one here talking about basic research, I thing this ought to be understood, that we are interested in those kinds of work which will develop new concepts, which will make discoveries and inventions, and develop materials or procedures which will be helpful to the Air Force 10, 15, and 25 years into the future.

And therefore we don't pretend that we are coming up with a gadget or a piece of useful information that will be used next week, although at times this does occur, that someone has called the serendipitous results.

Mr. HARDY. What kind of results?

Dr. HUTCHINSON. Those unexpected results which have an immediate application which we didn't intend in the first place.

Mr. HARDY. You know, Mr. Chairman, I wish we could get the doctor to take the title of this contract and break it down to see if we can understand it.

74109—611-17

Now it has a good many elements in it.
First you got body space.

Now, I don't know what they mean by body space. You have selfestimate of body space.

I don't know what self-estimate means as used in that.

And then maybe we ought to find out what factors were developed, so that we can try to understand what this contract is and who was actually performing the work under it.

Dr. HUTCHINSON. The matter of subjective means the self, the individual operator of a weapons system or whatever piece of gadgetry that we might be interested in.

The self is the appropriate thing to concern one's self with here, since the operator is the one who has to reach the pedals, read the dials, and fly by the seat of his pants.

So our feeling is that we are dealing with the one entity in life with which each of us is most familiar.

This is one of the critical factors

Secretary IMIRIE. In layman's language—and I am certainly a laymanMr. HARDY. That is what I am trying to get at

Secretary IMIRIE. The Air Force has a fond hope, with things like Dyna-Soar and follow-on projects, of going into space. And we are not real sure how a man will react when he goes into space, in terms of his cockpit. We know how he will work in an airplane, and we know how he can read the dials and gages, and so on.

But under conditions of weightlessness and other phenomena which occur in space, we are simply ignorant of the facts. And this kind of studies, and expressly this one, are connected to that.

Mr. Hardy. So we are talking about—this word “body” in this instance means the body of the astronaut.

Secretary IMIRIE. Yes, sir.
Dr. HUTCHINSON. Of an operator, or an astronaut.

Mr. Hardy. And the word “space” means the space which he is yuing to occupy for that body up here? Dr. HUTCHINSON. Yes, sir.

Secretary IMIRIE. I had the same feeling about Bryn Mawr, too. I though this was one where you might have had us dead to rights as a matter of fact. But as a result of talking with Dr. Hutchinson here and understanding what this was all about I am not at all concerned. I think he has a paper which is direct and to the point. And it is refreshing to learn that this is a well-thought-out contract. It is necessary. It certainly will result in something useful to the Air Force.

And it is done in a scientific community, where the kind of skills we need to do this way-out sort of thing are available to us.

Mr. HÉBERT. You don't have an inhouse operation of this nature ?

Dr. HUTCHINSON. No, sir. The nearest thing would be at the Aerospace Medical Laboratory at Wright Field, where they are equipped to do a great deal of applied research.

Mr. HÉBERT. That is where I thought—I had Wright-Patterson in mind, at Dayton, because we saw these experiments going along there for the astronauts.

Dr. HUTCHINSON. This is correct. And they were working on this year's problem, and fitting the man into the machine as best they may,

In other words, they are running along close behind the established equipment. When we have a new weapons system, they are having to fit the people to do the job as best they may.

To design better instruments and to make better use of human capabilities in the future, we need to do this basic research, which will be fed into places like Wright Field.

Mr. HÉBERT. And you feel that this contracting out is a more economical and efficient way to do it than implementing your present capability.

Dr. HUTCHINSON. It is the only possible way to get the kind of scientists that the Air Force requires, because the kind of scientists who will engage in basic research are not accessible to us. They will not move into Government service either in uniform or as civil service scientists.

We have many good scientists. I wouldn't want to cast any reflection on their capabilities. But for the amount of basic researching that goes on, we simply can't get the people that we need into Government laboratories or into uniform.

Mr. HÉBERT. Why can't we?

This is very important what you are discussing. Very important, because the general consensus of opinion, or the general idea of the man on the street is—our radio commentators speak with such authority—that we should do something about getting scientists in, because Russia is getting so many in. And not one of them stopping to compare the system in Russia to the system in America, because in Russia the scientist is told where to go.

Dr. HUTCHINSON. Right.

Mr. HÉBERT. Here we have to persuade them. Now this type of study is for that persuasion.

Dr. HUTCHINSON. This kind of study is to persuade the people who are able to do the work to work on those things where they have the competence.

They will not accept the kind of direction that is essential in a Government-sponsored laboratory. They want to pick their own topics, and they want to follow them wherever they take them. Now it is true these are unsolicited research proposals that come in

It doesn't mean they are simply pulled out of the blue sky. They meet recognized Air Force requirements which are established on the basis of long-range plans.

Mr. Hardy. You didn't develop this requirement, then? I mean you didn't seek somebody to conduct this particular type of research?

In this case, the researcher presented a proposal to the Air Force, is that right?

Dr. HUTCHINSON. That is correct, that a person perhaps known to us but not specifically stimulated did present a proposal. But he knew of our program, because it has been thoroughly communicated through scientific journals, through conferences, symposiums, through our brochure, and through other means, that the Air Force has a program of this description.

Mr. HARDY. This is not a title of a particular research project, then, which has an Air Force title. This is a title somebody else suggested, is that right?

to us.

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