Because our church is the friend and not the enemy of motion pictures and does not desire to hurt the industry but to help it by eliminating unwholesome features that it may instruct, entertain, and refresh without injuring anyone: Therefore it is recommended

1. That our church adhere firmly to its repeated declarations in favor of local, State, and Federal regulation of the motion-picture industry in such a way that each shall supplement the other.

2. While we recognize that education alone is not sufficient for an emergency like the present, but needs to be supplemented by a more speedy method (as education in hygiene needs to be supplemented in an ep'demic by quarantine), nevertheless we emphasize the fundamental importance of Christian education as the only permanent safeguard and final solution in the protection of public welfare and private morality against the evil of unwholesome motion pictures. 3. We recommend continued cooperation of the Presbyterian Church with other representative religious and reform agencies seeking to deal constructively with this question.

The CHAIRMAN. Do any members of the committee desire to ask the witness any questions?

Mr. HOLADAY. There is one question that I have: You made some statement about the previous witness being a representative of Mr. Hays.

Doctor SCANLON. A subsidiary organization cooperating with Mr. Hays.

Mr. HOLADAY. Can you give us a brief outline of what you understand has been Mr. Hays' motive with reference to organizing these local boards?

Doctor SCANLON. With your permission, I will read a brief statement that sums up the whole history of that effect.

Mrs. RICHARDSON. Mr. Chairman, allow me to say this: we organized the committee of the Federation of Women's Clubs in Georgia long before we ever knew there was a Hays organization. We are in no wise a subsidiary of that. There may be others. But, so far as the organization that I represent is concerned, it is no wise a subsidiary of that.

Doctor SCANLON. Mr. Chairman, that is a fair observation. But Mrs. Richardson introduced herself as representing the Better Films Committee of Atlanta, which she said had been working for five years.

This effort to regulate themselves began in 1909, with what was known first as the National Board of Censors. They organized, and later they came to dislike the name National Board of Censors, and they changed it to National Board of Review.

After a while, the public came to understand that it was the same company of people operating under another name. Then they changed the name again. And that has been done five different times to the present. But it is about the same people, under the same control of the same group of motion-picture producers.

Colonel Joy, who is assistant to Mr. Hays in some capacity, called at my office for an interview, and I asked him who composed this; he was then speaking especially of the public relations committee, which has since gone out of existence. And he told me how it was composed. I need not recite that.

He said they were all voluntary: they received no salary. I asked him how often they met. He said about twice a year; there were generally very few present. I asked him who acted meanwhile. He said that, as executive secretary, he did. I asked him whether he

received a salary. He said he did, from Mr. Hays; and that the meetings were commonly held in Mr. Hays's office. I asked him why it was necessary to have a committee to censor them, if they could censor themselves, and their employees were only subsidiaries anyhow. And there was no satisfactory answer to that.

Now, one of these organizations has been constituted, known as the Open Door. It is under the same management, and financed and controlled by the same group of people.

That is why I say in this resolution that as to their claim to ability to censor themselves, they are either insincere or unable to do so, judging by these five different efforts, all of which have failed. Mr. HAIE. Has your organization ever protested against any proposed picture?

Doctor SCANLON. This organization?

Mr. HALE. The organization you represent.

Doctor SCANLON. Yes, sir.

Mr. HALE. How did they meet you on your protest to the producers?

Doctor SCANLON. They ignored them.

Mr. HALE. You did not find the same response that Mrs. McGoldrick found?

Doctor SCANLON. We did not.

Mr. HALE. In what cases was that-do you know?

Doctor SCANLON. We have invited Mr. Hays to the first three motion picture conferences. It has been a free platform. We invited the producers, the actors and actresses and the exhibitors, and they have not come. In regard to the last invitation, Mr. Hays acknowledged it and simply said, "I will not be there."

Mr. HALE. I do not think you understood me. I mean, what have you done along the lines that Mrs. McGoldrick pointed out? Have you gone to the producers and protested in advance against anything objectionable in any proposed pictures?

Doctor SCANLON. No, sir.

Mr. HALE. That is what I wanted to know.

Doctor SCANLON. We have protested to the head of the organization.

Mr. LowREY. I just want to suggest, Mr. Chairman, in regard to the pamphlet, that the gentleman speaks of, it might save space in the printed record of the hearings by marking out of that pamphlet the things he does not especially care to have go in, and leave it with the committee.

Doctor SCANLON. I am perfectly willing to do that, because part of it is historical.

(Thereupon, at 11.45 o'clock a. m., the committee adjourned until Thursday, April 15, 1926, at 10 o'clock a. m.)

The committee met at 10 o'clock a. m., pursuant to adjournment,

Hon. Daniel A. Reed (chairman) presiding.

The CHAIRMAN. The committee will come to order.

Mr. Lee Hammer is here, and he wishes to get away. He has had & death in the family; othrewise, of course, we would have him wait. But if it is agreeable to the Committee to hear him now, that will enable him to catch a train and get away.

I want to get the sense of the Committee on this other proposition. Personally I would prefer to have the proponents of the bill heard as rapidly as possible, and when they have completed their case then I would like to give the other side full opportunity to be heard. That will make the proceedings more orderly, easier to handle and casier to read; and unless the Committee objects we will proceed in that way.

If there are no objections, we will hear Mr. Hanmer.

Mr. CONNOLLY. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I would like to introduce Mr. Lee F. Manmer. Mr. Hanmer is director of the department of recreation of the Russell Sage Foundation of New York. He was for three years chairman of the Committee on Public Relations cooperating with the motion-picture industry, and was chairman of the motion-picture committee for the War and Navy Departments during the war, having charge of the selection and procurement of all pictures used for the soldiers and sailors during the war. STATEMENT OF LEE F. HANMER, DIRECTOR OF THE DEPARTMENT OF RECREATION OF THE RUSSELL SAGE FOUNDATION, NEW YORK, N. Y.

Mr. HANMER. Mr. Chairman, ladies and gentlemen, I certainly appreciate your courtesy in allowing me to speak at this time, and the courtesy of Canon Chase is also very much appreciated.

In the 25 or more years that I have been devoting my energies to better recreations and amusements, particularly for the young people of the country, I have taken particular interest in the question of the development and progress and eventuating of the motion picture as one of the great agencies of amusement, education, and recreation, and in that connection I have spent considerable time and thought in working in my own particular way in cooperation with agencies that could bring about these improvements. I come here this morning, Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, to present to you as briefly as I may what has happened within the last few years in my immediate connection with the endeavors of organizations and agencies cooperating with the motion-picture industry to bring about the improvements that I am sure all of us who are here to-day are interested in achieving.

I wish to speak in opposition to these bills, H. R. 6233 and H. R. 4094, to create a Federal motion-picture commission. What I have to say is in harmony with the position that has been taken by the public relations committee, of which I was chairman during its existence of three years, from 1922 to 1925, and which was formed to bring about cooperation and a better understanding between the motion-picture producers and distributors and citizen organizations and agencies interested as a part of their work in the improvement of motion-pictures and their practical use in schools, churches, and community centers, and in special programs for children.

Out of this committee's activities has developed the department of public relations of the Motion Picture Producers & Distributors Association, of which department Col. Jason S. Joy is now director. Formerly Colonel Joy was executive secretary of our public relations committee, in which 73 national organizations were associated. Colonel Joy came to this work from the headquarters staff of the Red Cross, previously to which he was military executive of the War Department commission on training-camp activities during the armistice and demobilization period of the war. During most of the war he was military aid to the Third Assistant Secretary of War. I mention this to indicate the type of man whom we brought into this work to help the committee interpret to the motion-picture industry the point of view and the wishes of the citizen agencies that were seeking by cooperation and mutual understanding to bring about improvements in motion-picture production and service, such as I assume the proponents of this bill seek to achieve by official Federal supervision and censorship.

Here, briefly, is what has taken place and is now taking place as a result of the procedure in which I firmly believe, as opposed to such Government supervision and dictation as is provided in these bills. About four years ago nine of the largest companies which make and circulate pictures formed themselves into an organization called the Motion Picture Producers & Distributors of America. They chose as their president and advisor Will H. Hays, who was then Postmaster General of the United States, and they set forth in their articles of incorporation the following purpose:

tablishing and maintaining the highest possible moral and artistic standards of motion-picture production and developing the educational as well as the entertainment value and the general usefulness of the motion picture.

It was on that thesis that I felt disposed, as one working in the interest of public recreation and better amusements, to seek to cooperate.

This organization has grown until to-day it includes the 23 largest and most important producing and distributing corporations which deal in motion pictures. They make about 85 per cent of all pictures produced in America. I believe that if those who are urging this legislation really knew the facts about the efforts and achievements of these producers and distributors, and the practical way in which they have sought and received the advice and assistance of citizen organizations and individuals they would see that Government censorship is entirely unnecessary and clearly undesirable.

One of the first steps taken by the association of producers and distributors was to call a conference of the representatives of national, social, religious, welfare, and educational bodies, to secure their advice and cooperation in achieving the purposes that I have just quoted to you. Out of that conference the committee on public relations was formed, representing through their member organizations many millions of men and women interested in public welfare. Mr. Hays invited national organizations to come together and talk over with him how, if possible, there might be cooperation between those interested and him and his organization in bringing about the things they wished to do. This conference which I have just referred to was held and a small subcommittee was appointed that day to see what could be done to bring about definite, orderly

cooperation. As I remember, Mr. James E. West, of the Boy Scouts, and Mr. Howard S. Braucher, executive of the Playgrounds Association of America, and myself were the subcommittee. We decided that it would be well to form what we called a committee of 12, or something of that sort, to represent the big organizations that were in that conference; and out of that grew the public relations committee.

Mr. FENN. Excuse me; where is the headquarters of the committee?

Mr. HANMER. The office was nonexistent for some time, until we were able to secure Colonel Joy as secretary. When we found that we were going to have to group and try to center up and focus our efforts our subcommittee went to Mr. Hays and said to him, "Would it be possible in this connection, in our cooperation with you, for you to provide us with a secretary for the committee, who would be the operating, connecting agency?"

Mr. FENN. What I meant was, where is the local headquarters? Mr. HANMER. That is just what I am coming to.

Mr. FENN. Excuse me.

Mr. HANMER. That secretary was appointed-Colonel Joy--and was given a desk in the corner of Mr. Hays's general office, where we would hold our meetings.

Mr. FENN. Where is that?

Mr. HANMER. At that time it was 522 Fifth Avenue. It is now 469 Fifth Avenue.

Mr. FENN. It is in New York? That is what I wanted to get.
Mr. HANMER. In New York City; yes, sir.

They proceeded to act as an advisory body to interpret the desires of the public in relation to the motion-picture entertainments and to develop pictures to a higher plane through a systematic plan of supporting the best productions. That was one of the things that we thought were worth doing. If good pictures could be made to pay, more of them would be produced; and if they did not pay, it would be pretty hard to get them produced.

About 60 national organizations came together in the summer of 1922 to form the public relations committee. Here are the names of some of them. The number was increased later to 73:

The National Society of the Sons of the American Revolution.
National Society Colonial Dames of America.