AMOUNT ESTIMATED FOR FARM PLACEMENT SERVICE

When the Employment Service was transferred to the Commission, I instructed the Director to prepare a new estimate of funds needed for farm placement. This is the item of $2,058,333 which the House rejected, although from the language contained in the committee report, it is evident that they were familiar with the existing shortage of farm labor. The committee stated that "until a clearer policy with reference to assuring manpower for agriculture is determined, the committee feels that the Budget estimates should be withheld.'

How can we determine exact policies if we do not have complete facts regarding requirements? If funds are provided for additional offices to be established in agricultural areas, the placement load in most instances will not be heavy during the next few months. Therefore, the employees of such offices will be able to make surveys of labor requirements, analyze the available labor supply and the extent to which such supply is being utilized. We must have reasonably exact information before we can determine how the demand is to be met.

FARM LABOR PROBLEM

You all know that the labor situation is becoming more critical each month and that at the peak of the harvest season the agricultural labor situation always becomes particularly acute. This year portions of some crops have been lost; however, sufficient workers were found to harvest the bulk of all crops. I would be overoptimistic if I agreed that without additional funds for an expanded service we could hope to harvest most of next year's crops. Further, I am very much afraid that in certain areas farmers may reduce acreage planted unless they have some assurance that we are on the job and prepared in advance to do everything possible to assist them in meeting their labor needs.

Senator MCKELLAR. Now, Governor.

Senator MCCARRAN. Do you mind an interruption?

Mr. McNUTT. No, sir,

Senator MCCARRAN. That one statement struck me forcibly.

You

say that manpower was marshalled sufficient to harvest the bulk of the crop.

Mr. McNUTT. That is right.

Senator MCCARRAN. Do you think that is true?

Mr. McNUTT. That is right; the bulk. There have been spots. where there were losses.

Senator MCCARRAN. By and large, the bulk?

Mr. McNUTT. By and large. I repeat, there have been losses. But that is this year. Now all of us are attempting to foresee what the demands will be next year. Increased demands of lend-lease, increased demands for supplying our own services, increased demands for manpower in the armed service. Farmers are wondering what they are going to do, and they must have help.

Senator NYE. As to the farm labor, it is considerably more than just a matter of harvesting; is it not?

Mr. McNUTT. Oh, yes; it is a matter of planting, of cultivating, and harvesting.

Senator NYE. It is a serious question now as to whether the farm population is going to be able to plant what is required next year. Mr. McNUTT. Precisely, and therefore we should be losing no time on solving the problem.

DRAFTING INTO MILITARY SERVICE OF FARM LABOR

Senator NYE. Governor, has the Manpower Commission made any recommendation with respect to the continuing draft of farm labor? Mr. McNUTT. One of the first directives we issued listed agriculture as one of the essential occupations.

The CHAIRMAN. Throughout the country, as a rule, they do not defer anyone for work on the farm, whereas they do defer, when it is necessary, those engaged in manufacture, in war work. It is believed by some that if we gave the local draft boards specifically the power in cases where they are needed on the farm, to defer induction into the service for a reasonable time, that that would help the situation. Mr. McNUTT. Mr. Chairman, they have that power today. Senator MCKELLAR. They have it, maybe.

Mr. McNUTT. Then why don't they exercise it?

Senator HAYDEN. I can give you an answer as to why they don't exercise it. I have seen it in mining camps and in farm communities. The draft is apportioned throughout the United States according to population, and a State must raise so many men for that draft. The local board then has its quota of the State quota assigned to it.

Now, it has the choice of taking a young, unmarried man off the farm or taking a young, unmarried man out of a copper mine, or drafting somebody with a wife in the town, and they simply will not draft a married man when they can find a single man, although the young miner or young farmer is engaged in an absolutely essential industry. Local boards simply will not do it, because the sentiment in the community is, "Here is a young fellow that has no family. Why don't you send him to war?" They don't go beyond that.

EFFECT ON FARM LABOR PROBLEM OF INDUSTRIAL WAGES

Senator MCKELLAR. How would you, as head of the Manpower Commission, get young men, farm labor, at a very much lower price than is paid by industry, out on the farm? It looks to me like you are up against a tough proposition.

Mr. McNUTT. Of course, it is tough. You can do this; you can give deferment protection through the draft boards, if they will do it, if they will follow directives.

Senator McKELLAR. I introduced a bill like that and it is before the Department now. They haven't sent an answer to it. I suppose it went to you.

Mr. McNUTT. No, it did not. I expect they sent it to the Department of Agriculture or to Selective Service.

DRAFTING INTO MILITARY SERVICE OF FARM LABOR

Senator MCKELLAR. I think they ought to be given specific authority. Draft Boards in my State-and I expect you know the man who wrote me about it. He used to be head of the Tennessee

American Legion, the State organization, and I believe he held a high place in the national organization. He has been head of the draft board in that part of the State since the draft came, or since this act went into effect. He says that the rule is, in his department, that farm boys shall not be deferred.

Mr. McNUTT. That is not true.

Senator MCKELLAR. He feels that way and all the boards feel that way, and they draft the farm boys and leave the others who go into industry.

Mr. McNUTT. That is not true. They are on the same list.

Senator MCKELLAR. They may be on the same list, but his instructions are not to defer those on farms.

Mr. McNUTT. If those are his instructions from his State director, his State director is not following the instructions he receives from the national headquarters of Selective Service.

Senator MCKELLAR. In other words, we can easily make that plain by passing a law that gives the draft board that power.

Senator HAYDEN. In my judgment, Mr. Chairman, it will not do a bit of good to leave that discretion in the hands of the local boards, because they are simply going to take the young, unmarried men before they take the man with a family-if the discretion is left in their hands.

QUESTION AS TO FURLOUGHING DRAFTEES

I want to ask this, as a practical suggestion, Governor, because I haven't followed it through. Suppose they receive a quota that they must provide for the Army, and they are needed in essential industries, such as copper mining, or on the farm. Could that young man be inducted into the Army-we now furlough them for 2 weeks to get ready

Mr. McNUTT. Yes.

Senator HAYDEN. Could he be inducted and then you give him a furlough that he could remain at home as long as he stays on the job he had and was doing the same kind of work he was doing?

Mr. McNUTT. You could, but the Army is very much against that. Senator HAYDEN. That is what I want to follow through and find out why.

Mr. McNUTT. Because then the cry would come from every occupation to furlough men, and we wouldn't have any Army.

Senator HAYDEN. But there must be a directive that would go with it, of course.

Mr. McNUTT. The only place that has been done is where the Army ordered these men back to the copper mines. They furloughed to the enlisted reserve 4,000 hard rock copper miners.

QUESTION AS TO DEFERMENT OF THOSE ENGAGED IN FARMING

Senator OVERTON. I can understand very well how you can defer those engaged in mining. But how are you going to defer those engaged in farming? You can't defer everybody working on the farm. Mr. McNUTT. Of course not, and the Draft Act itself forbids blanket deferments.

Senator OVERTON. Can you save enough labor for the farms?

Mr. McNUTT. One would think, with these local boards right in the midst of it some of them are farmers-that they must see the need as well as anybody else.

Senator OVERTON. They may do it in some localities, but in other localities they do not.

Mr. McNUTT. Well, after all, we are dealing here, in the selection of our armed forces, with the democratic process. I believe in it. I believe the local boards, on the whole, have done a good job. They are under tremendous pressure. We all realize that. And the smaller the community, the more tremendous the pressure, because the smaller the community, the more that community feels that it is the draft board, and that it will pass on the eligibility of any individual for service in the armed forces. We have had 150 years of background in this country, a background of feeling that in time of war the place to serve is in the armed forces. In years gone by, I may have been guilty of contributing to that thought. But this is total war, and this is a time when each person should serve where he can make the greatest contribution to speedy victory.

Senator MCKELLAR. That comes right up to the question I asked you a while ago. Let us assume that things go along as they are, and there is no deferment of the farmers. How are you going to get what you call manpower on the farm, without force?

Mr. McNUTT. Just to show you that a direct channel was opened by the Director of Selective Service, he did send out a special directive to all his State directors on the employment of agricultural labor.

Senator BROOKS. Isn't it a fact that the reason they have deferred them is the Army itself has had the greatest influence with the Director of Selective Service, and they have indicated the essential worker in industry should be deferred and that farm labor was problematical and the decision was with the local board?

Mr. McNUTT. Senator, I don't think that is justified. While these men wear the uniform and receive their pay from the Army, nevertheless the Selective Service is an independent establishment. Independent to this extent; the Army gives its order for so many men, and it is the business of Selective Service, under the law, to go out and get that many able-bodied men, within the age limits set by the draft. But I have seen no indication of what you suggest. Selective service officials are as aware as anyone else of the necessity of maintaining agricultural production.

Senator NYE. But it is fair to say that until more recently they have not realized how dangerously near they were to destroying agricultural production?

Mr. McNUTT. Will you let me say one other thing? As I take a look at this from an over-all viewpoint, I must say that up to the present time, the impact has been pretty evenly distributed.

Senator NYE. You mean as between industry and agriculture? Mr. McNUTT. Between every essential occupation. The halls of our building are full of employers who say, "I have been given a job to do in this war. I am 100 percent engaged in war production, and look what the draft and enlistment are doing to me. Once in a while I find the happy example of the employer who is also a member of the draft board, and then I put the question right back to him. He usually appreciates what has happened. We have always gone on the assumption, Mr. Chairman, that we had unlimited manpower in

this country, but now, with the kind of a war we are in, we are going to have to ration our manpower as we are rationing some other things.

Senator MCKELLAR. If you ration it, how are you going to keepnot keep-how are you going to place the necessary men on the farm under present conditions? I don't see how you can do it..

GIVING UP OF SUBMARGINAL AND SUBSISTENCE FARMING

Mr. McNUTT. I will tell you one source. I think we are going to have to give up submarginal and subsistence farming.

Senator BROOKS. What do you mean by giving it up?

Mr. McNUTT. I mean they are going to have to leave their present places and go

Senator BROOKS. Under orders?

Mr. McNUTT. Well, persuasion first. Here is the whole pointthis must be done.

Senator MCKELLAR. We have a constitutional provision against slavery. You can't very well do that.

We

Mr. McNUTT. I won't argue that question right now with you, Mr. Chairman, but this has to be an orderly development. We have never done anything of this kind before in our entire history. People have been entirely free to do what they pleased, when they pleased, with the exception of violating the criminal code. At any rate, they feel that sense of freedom. Just now, what we do is by way of persuasion. Try to tell the people, "This is why and where you should go." try to persuade them to go, or try to persuade them to stay, as the case may be. It may be that for a while, a short while, the needs can be met, but I am sure that that will be for no great period of time because of the demands we see ahead on the manpower of this country. As I have said, one thing is the matter of deferment of those already on the farms, and another is an orderly recruitment of those we feel should be going into productive farming instead of just feeding their own mouths.

Senator NYE. You mean we are approaching the end, for the moment at any rate, of this experiment which found us trying to provide a healthier farm unit?

Mr. McNUTT. No; not that.

Senator NYE. The Farm Security Administration has been doing quite a job in that direction.

Mr. McNUTT. That is right.

Senator NYE. Do you feel that must be abandoned now, in part, at least?

Mr. McNUTT. In so far as it affects subsistence farming and submarginal farming, yes, for the duration. In other words, anyone who can make a contribution in that field should make it where it will be productive.

QUESTION AS TO WHEN RECOMMENDATIONS FOR LEGISLATION ON MANPOWER PROBLEM WILL BE SUBMITTED TO CONGRESS

Senator HAYDEN. The issue before the committee is whether to appropriate $2,058,333 for this Farm Placement Service. The House apparently took the view that the whole manpower problem ought to be studied and Congress ought to act upon that problem before this