inspection at the office of such board not later than two weeks prior to the holding of the election. Such statement shall be added to from time to time as additional names and addresses are received by the board. Each such statement shall be prepared in duplicate, and the duplicate copy thereof shall be mailed immediately to the secretary of state of the State and shall be open at all times to public inspection at the office of the secretary of state of the State, together with all additions made thereto.

DIFFERENCE IN COST BETWEEN STATES

Senator HAYDEN. It is perfectly obvious that the State that has an established system of absentee voting can carry this on in the normal way without any extraordinary expense.

Mr. BARTELT. That is true.

Senator HAYDEN. But the State that has made no provision by law, and has had no experience in it, can do it about as they please and the bill will be much higher than in the other States.

Mr. BARTELT. You are quite right.

Senator HAYDEN. This then means that we will appropriate what you believe to be a sum adequate to take care of what you believe the situation to be, and that you do not believe ultimately the sum of $1,200,000 will be expended.

Mr. BARTELT. That is my opinion.

ACT REQUIRES THAT MONEYS NOT NEEDED BY STATES SHALL BE RETURNED TO SECRETARY OF THE TREASURY

Also, there is a provision in section 10 (b) of the act which directs that these moneys must be accounted for by the States, any and part of such amounts not needed shall be returned to the Secretary of the Treasury upon his demand.

For instance, if we should make a payment to a State, based upon the best estimate we could get from the States, supported by a justification, and then later it is found that the expenses do not actually amount to that sum of money, then under the law the Secretary of the Treasury is required to make a demand for the return of the money. Senator OVERTON. Each State keeps a separate account of the money disbursed for this purpose?

Mr. BARTELT. Yes, sir.

Senator HAYDEN. What would be the effect if a State made a bad guess and did not estimate enough money?

Mr. BARTELT. This money would not be appropriated to the States separately. Some of the estimates will probably be more than is necessary, others less. But we thought $1,200,000 was a conservative figure, and yet would be enough to take care of that contingency. Senator HAYDEN. We thank you.

INTERSTATE COMMERCE COMMISSION

STATEMENT OF MR. W. P. BARTEL, SECRETARY, INTERSTATE COMMERCE COMMISSION

REMOVAL OF LIMITATION ON AMOUNT FOR EXPENDITURE IN MOVING HOUSEHOLD GOODS AND EFFECTS

Senator HAYDEN. We have a supplemental estimate in Senate Document 261, dated October 2, 1942, reading as follows:

"The limitation of $5,000 on the amount which may be expended from appropriations made to the Interstate Commerce Commission for transfer of household

goods and effects appearing under this head in the Independent Offices Appropriation Act, 1943, is hereby removed."

Due to the fact that under present emergency conditions experienced employees of the Commission are leaving the Commission in unusual numbers for service in other branches of the Government, principally the military, and the inability to secure capable replacements, it is believed to be necessary to fill vacancies by transfers of experienced personnel from one station to another. The limitation of $5,000 on the transfer of household goods of such transferred employees prevents the satisfactory accomplishment of this purpose. In view of the uncertainty as to the extent to which personnel transferred may become necessary, it is deemed advisable to eliminate rather than increase the restriction.

We will be pleased to hear from you, sir.

Mr. BARTEL. That statement, Mr. Chairman, is made by the Director of the Budget and it is about the answer and presents the problem in concrete form.

We are not asking for any additional money.

ESTIMATED

AMOUNT THAT WILL BE EXPENDED IF LIMITATION IS
REMOVED

Senator HAYDEN. If the limitation of $5,000 is removed, what is your estimate of the amount that will probably be expended?

Mr. BARTEL. The best figures we have now are about $20,000. Senator NYE. Would you consent to a limitation there of $20,000?

BUDGET REQUESTED TO ALLOW REMOVAL OF LIMITATION OR FIXING OF IT AT $20,000

Mr. BARTEL. The way we put it up to the Budget, we suggested the deletion of the limitation entirely, or $20,000. We put it in the alternative. But I notice in the independent offices appropriation bill, in connection with all other departments or agencies covered by that bill, the Interstate Commerce Commission is the only one that had a limitation. There is no limitation attached to the appropriation for any of the other departments. In other words, they just authorized them to expend the money for moving the household goods, without any limitation.

Senator HAYDEN. We can try it for a year. We can take the limitation off, and then when the bill comes up next year, we can determine whether you have spent $20,000.

NEED FOR INCREASE IN LIMITATION

Mr. BARTEL. We have spent practically the $5,000 now, and I have any number of requests for transfers from one place to another and we just simply do not have the money to transfer their household goods. We have the money available, but we cannot use it under this limitation.

ADDITIONAL APPROPRIATION NOT REQUIRED

Senator HAYDEN. Will this expenditure of $20,000 more or less deplete your appropriation, so that you will have to come back for a deficiency to make up for it at a later time?

Mr. BARTEL. No, Senator, we will not come back for a deficiency. We will manage to take care of this out of lapses. In fact, we have set up quite a large reserve this year in all our appropriations and because of the difficulty we are having in filling positions we are even running in excess of the reserve we set up. So we will have no difficulty in taking care of this amount out of the current appropriation. Senator HAYDEN. I think we understand it; thank you.

INTERIOR DEPARTMENT

BUREAU OF MINES

STATEMENT OF DR. R. R. SAYERS, DIRECTOR, BUREAU OF MINES SUPPLEMENTAL ESTIMATE FOR CONSTRUCTION AND EQUIPMENT OF HELIUM PLANTS

Senator HAYDEN. This is a deficiency estimate, dated October 1. It provides for an appropriation of $11,000,000 for the construction and equipment of helium plants under the Bureau of Mines, Department of the Interior.

The committee will be pleased to hear your justification of this appropriation.

Dr. SAYERS. This appropriation is for $11,000,000, and you may recall that previously we have asked for sums which have been appropriated to us for the purpose of constructing plants and for increasing the capacity of the plant at Amarillo. The plant at Amarillo origi-, nally had a capacity of 24,000,000 cubic feet of helium per year, but the gas wells that had been drilled were not adequate for operation at that rate. The amount of money was, appropriated; another unit was added to the Amarillo plant, bringing its capacity to 36,000,000 cubic feet of helium per year; and additional gas wells have been drilled. Also, funds have been appropriated for the construction of another plant in Texas, not far from the Amarillo plant. That plant is under construction. The total amount appropriated up to the present time is about $5,575,000.

SOURCE OF HELIUM GAS

Senator HAYDEN. Are you still obtaining this helium gas by extracting it from gas

Dr. SAYERS. From natural gas; yes, sir.

Senator HAYDEN (continuing). That is afterwards used for fuel? Dr. SAYERS. That is correct.

Senator HAYDEN. You find that condition to exist in the Amarillo field and anywhere else in the United States?

Dr. SAYERS. Yes; several other places in the United States.

INCREASED NEED FOR HELIUM BY THE NAVY

Now, we are asked by the Navy to provide for production much greater than that previously estimated. In fact, the estimated demands will require a capacity about 24 times the combined capacity of the Amarillo plant and the new one now under construction. The

amount we are asking for here is to construct plants to meet that greatly increased demand.

PLACES IN UNITED STATES WHERE A NATURAL GAS IS FOUND FROM WHICH HELIUM CAN BE EXTRACTED

Senator HAYDEN. In what parts of the United States do you find a natural gas from which helium can be extracted?

Dr. SAYERS. Texas is outstanding; Kansas is well known. Those are the two principal States. However, there is some in New Mexico, Colorado, Utah, Wyoming, Montana, and Oklahoma.

Senator HAYDEN. I recollect a statement here once that there was some gas of that kind in Kentucky.

Dr. SAYERS. No, sir.

Senator OVERTON. Is there any in Louisiana?

Dr. SAYERS. No, sir; none in Louisiana. Mr. Cattell knows better than I.

Mr. CATTELL. No helium-bearing gases of importance have been found in Louisiana or south Texas.

MILITARY USES OF HELIUM

Senator OVERTON. Helium is used in the blimps, is it not?

Dr. SAYERS. That is correct.

Senator OVERTON. Anything else?

Dr. SAYERS. That is the chief use from the military standpoint. However, helium is used in meteorological balloons, some barrage balloon operations, diving, especially by the Navy, in medical treatment, and in some important metallurgical activities.

INCREASE IN HELIUM SUPPLY COMPLEMENTARY TO INCREASE IN NUMBER

OF NAVAL BLIMPS

Senator HAYDEN. I take it that this appropriation is complementary to the other appropriation in the bill?

Dr. SAYERS. That is correct.

Senator HAYDEN. Which provides for an increase in the number of Navy blimps, of about 100?

Dr. SAYERS. That is correct, Senator.

Senator HAYDEN. Since there would be no use to build blimps unless you could fill them with helium?

Dr. SAYERS. That is correct.

SAFETY VALUE OF USE OF HELIUM IN BLIMPS

Senator HAYDEN. It is considered, for military purposes, that hydrogen gas, which probably has greater lifting powers than helium, is utterly unsafe.

Dr. SAYERS. That is correct, sir.

Senator HAYDEN. If an incendiary bullet is fired into a blimp, what happens?

Dr. SAYERS. If helium is used a little of this gas escapes and that is all.

Senator HAYDEN. Whereas with hydrogen?

Dr. SAYERS. You have a fire or an explosion.

Senator NYE. For what reason does so little of the gas escape? Dr. SAYERS. Because there is so little pressure, and the hole is very small in proportion to the size of the ship. The helium would escape gradually.

Senator NYE. Are not the bags built in sections, too?

Dr. SAYERS. Yes, in the larger ships. But even so, with the small hole the helium does not go out so rapidly. It is not under great pressure within the gas bag, as you know.

Senator NYE. The danger there does not compare with the danger from explosion where hydrogen is used?

Dr. SAYERS. That is correct, Senator.

QUESTION AS TO PROCESS OF SELF-SEALING OF HOLES SHOT
IN BLIMPS

Senator OVERTON. Have they invented any process of self-sealing of these holes in the blimp, where a bullet makes such hole?

Dr. SAYERS. I don't know whether there is a sealing compound or not; there certainly could be, but the weight of the ships would be increased.

Mr. CATTEL. I think they can repair holes in the rigid ships while the ship is in flight, and probably they can make some repairs in nonrigid ships.

Dr. SAYERS. It would depend on the size and location of the hole. On the rigid ship, I am quite sure they have means of repairing holes.

Senator HAYDEN. This appropriation, then, is asked to accommodate the Navy expansion program in blimps. That is all there is to it?

Dr. SAYERS. That is all there is to it.

Senator HAYDEN. Any other questions?

STRATEGIC MINERALS SURVEY

Senator NYE. Doctor, how are you proceeding with the survey throughout the country?

Dr. SAYERS. For helium?

Senator NYE. No, the general survey, the strategic minerals. I understand you have had great difficulty with personnel, and I can understand why.

Dr. SAYERS. We have some difficulty in obtaining personnel sufficiently qualified. However, it is not as great as one might think. People are glad to help; in general the public wants to help. We are getting along, I believe, with reasonable satisfaction. We are carrying on our examinations, examining properties that are submitted to us by the Geological Survey, by the State geological surveys, and by individuals. After an examination of a property has been made, it is followed by thorough exploration by drilling, trenching, and so forth, if the results of the examination warrant it.

TELEGRAM TO EMPLOYEES OF AMARILLO, TEX., HELIUM PLANT

I would like to insert a telegram to the employees of the Amarillo helium plant, at this point.

Senator HAYDEN. That may be inserted in the record.